Mipha
Hyrule Castle
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Mipha
Jun 8, 2020 14:28:36 GMT -5
Post by Mipha on Jun 8, 2020 14:28:36 GMT -5
It's just a simple mater of me trusting Oven more then I trusted you. I was waiting for Oven and I to work in Urbosa who I wasn't sure if she would have cold feet or not. Once she was confirmed, I edged in the Kass vote with you. Sorry for not trusting you but it was our first time working together and you were so UTR that I just had no idea who you would leak info to if anyone at all. If I told you to vote Kass and it got back to him, then Sidon would jump down my throat and I would be in a worse position.
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Revali
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Mipha
Jun 8, 2020 14:42:29 GMT -5
Post by Revali on Jun 8, 2020 14:42:29 GMT -5
It's just a simple mater of me trusting Oven more then I trusted you. I was waiting for Oven and I to work in Urbosa who I wasn't sure if she would have cold feet or not. Once she was confirmed, I edged in the Kass vote with you. Sorry for not trusting you but it was our first time working together and you were so UTR that I just had no idea who you would leak info to if anyone at all. If I told you to vote Kass and it got back to him, then Sidon would jump down my throat and I would be in a worse position. Okay fair, was it somehow not public knowledge that Kass and I would target each other the moment we had the public will to? I feel like people kept wanting us to be a secret pair when, yeah, that was never gonna happen after Round 1. Anyway, how's Obi doing? I may or may not be bored and don't have any more questions to answer atm (and trying to avoid long line by line responses to y'alls stuff atm).
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Mipha
Hyrule Castle
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Mipha
Jun 8, 2020 15:20:37 GMT -5
Post by Mipha on Jun 8, 2020 15:20:37 GMT -5
Sure, Patty told me about how you were at odds with Kass but I was at odds with Horse and Kohga yet we still told each other stuff and even became close friends. I suppose I just didn't want to rush into something with an unknown when I had known variables with Oven and eventually Urbosa. Reading those conversations again, I think I was also convinced you were close with Epona and wanted to see if word got back to me for pushing a vote on her with you. I did that often as people kept leaking things and using Oaki/myself as the fall guy for most of it. Obi and Nova are sleeping behind me right now and so adorable <3 BUT BIG!!! Like wtf
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Master Kohga
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Mipha
Jun 8, 2020 15:43:18 GMT -5
Post by Master Kohga on Jun 8, 2020 15:43:18 GMT -5
At F6, you told me you'd vote however I did (while convincing me to go Sidon). Was that true? If I had said "no, we're voting Revali," what would you have done?
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Mipha
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Mipha
Jun 8, 2020 15:46:53 GMT -5
Post by Mipha on Jun 8, 2020 15:46:53 GMT -5
@urbosa -
And again, not the point of my post. I'm not claiming you took ownership, I'm showing a round by round of how you didn't have an impact on what happened.
But I was safe... and got no votes sooooo.... you can say I was the intended vote and I can say I intended to play my idol but the bottom line was that you wanted to do something but yet again, didn't do anything. People also intended to vote you at F5 until we changed our vote but I haven't once brought that up as a point against you because it isn't what happened. You have to actually make the move to get credit for something.
You claimed the first time Kass was mentioned was by you and I disproved that. The intent was always to vote Kass and me suggesting it to you was simple conditioning. You now knew I was willing to vote there and opened up to me about doing it but I was already in the process of working with Oven to make that vote happen. We just needed you to act on your beef instead of doing nothing again.
Once we had you, I felt comfortable telling Revali the vote was Kass.
No everyone had that information. Patty did, Horse did, Sidon did.... that info wasn't exactly secret and I even warned you after the Kass vote that we didn't have the numbers yet between Sidon/Kass both having vote manipulation items. You brushed me off and probably because you had a ton of items yourself but you might as well didn't have them with how they went unused.
Yeah I'm well aware of his paranoia which, although annoying, didn't matter when the vote was likely going to be Epona baring items. My ask of "would it have worked?" is in reference to you getting Kohga out at 5 had he not won immunity. He had an idol and wasn't going to be so paranoid that he wouldn't save himself. All your move did was swap the votes from Epona/Sidon to Sidon/Epona.
Also want to point out in your response to Revali that apparently Oven approached you about the Kass vote?
This seems to me like you reached out about Kass to me because you heard I was interested in voting him. You have my PM to you as proof plus Oven reaching out so yeah... I'm wanting to take credit for making that move happen.
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Mipha
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Mipha
Jun 8, 2020 15:50:23 GMT -5
Post by Mipha on Jun 8, 2020 15:50:23 GMT -5
At F6, you told me you'd vote however I did (while convincing me to go Sidon). Was that true? If I had said "no, we're voting Revali," what would you have done? I would have discussed it with you. If anything, I hope I proven that I'm always willing to discuss options and work out what is best. I would vote Revali if you were 100% committed that it was the correct play but I would fight hard to convince you otherwise as we both know there is a reason you didn't suggest that. A better example feels like if you wanted me to vote Urbosa. I would have swapped to Urbosa on F5 if you asked and were certain it was correct.
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Kass
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Mipha
Jun 8, 2020 17:00:41 GMT -5
Post by Kass on Jun 8, 2020 17:00:41 GMT -5
My first question here is coming a fair bit later than my questions to Urbo and Revali. That's not (as I think you might suspect) because I'm not going to vote for you. Interestingly, it's more or less the opposite.
I want to vote for the player who played the best game, regardless of who that is or what their relations with me personally were. I also want to use my questions to really push the finalists to prove that they played the best game, and to give some insight into my thoughts as a juror. The best way to ask questions like that is to press the flaws.
And when I'm looking at your game, I'm asking myself... What flaws?
My biggest problem with your game when I left was that I felt you were being overly, overtly, manipulative. Nobody in the game would trust you, and nobody on the jury would respect you. And... I don't think I've seen that view from anyone else except Sidon. So I don't think it really holds any water as a criticism. And as for turning on myself and Sidon, well, you never had a path to victory if you went there with the two of us. If I had gotten my way, you wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the end regardless. So you made the right move at the right time and rode the wave from that all the way to the end.
My only other big problem with your game is the obvious one. You were voted out. It's a huge downside and it's one that makes it very, very difficult for me to vote for you, not just because in a non-Redemption game you would have lost there and then, but also because getting voted out benefitted you enormously in the items you came back in with and that feels unfair on the players who never got voted out.
I haven't been sure what question to ask wrt that. It's a difficult thing to ask a question about. But I think I've got one - if you had had the Redemption Revelation earlier (say, at F13), what would be your play from then on? If you realised your gameplay was going to get you voted out, what specifically would you have done differently?
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Royal White Horse
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Mipha
Jun 8, 2020 17:44:01 GMT -5
Post by Royal White Horse on Jun 8, 2020 17:44:01 GMT -5
Patty and Horse definitely helped me stir up conversations on redemption btw. Maybe they can back me up but lots more strategy and player threat evaluation happened then what seemed to happen while you were there. Mhmm, it's not that there wasn't any talk about strategy in redemption before you, but you definitely asked a lot more pointed questions imo which stirred up more conversation about it all. And it's not like the two of us didn't talk strategy together before redemption, but it was mostly just info sharing. Your conversation with me in redemption was not only good enough for me to accept that you would be better off getting back in than me, but is also a main factor of why I can both support you and understand why you're sitting here.
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Mipha
Hyrule Castle
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Mipha
Jun 8, 2020 17:56:48 GMT -5
Post by Mipha on Jun 8, 2020 17:56:48 GMT -5
Oh.... wow um... I'm going to take the time to think about your question Kass as I think it's important and helps define me as a player.
As you might have guessed, I wasn't expecting you to take this approach and I'm honored that you are at least considering my game after how we had departed.
So I'll get to this soon but would like to process the best way to explain my game from that situation.
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Patricia
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Mipha
Jun 8, 2020 19:33:31 GMT -5
Post by Patricia on Jun 8, 2020 19:33:31 GMT -5
Post is two fold. 1. A somewhat rebuttal of why Mipha ended up with items front loaded from Redemption, and 2. due to the Horse and I helping nut out in game details.
Ok so, first off, I left the game stupidly and had I not I would have had a bunch of items and been in the final merge again. Revali goes home there, presumably Mipha still gets back in to the game but with less items. I just think that changes path to victory, she would have had an extra ally vs items. I think she was always going to be in the same level of threat coming back in the game just with the state of the game.
Secondly, Mipha and I were pretty ride or die (Along with Riju). I way overestimated the game's ability to be chill with that until later in the game, which is my own failing. I nearly didn't play my idol and voted Mipha which would have left her in the game after the revote. In the end I was worried about the status of my multitude of items and wanted to either play to win or frontload Kass. That's the kind of player I am.
As for path to win upon coming back. Mipha and I had conflicting ideas on how to manipulate Sidon. Basically Sidon was the single most hated player in the game by the Jury, but in game I think people were trying to slightly push on that and then drag him to the end if they could. While our approaches were going to be different I think all three of us all had the same sort of grasp on the game and what it would take upon re-entry. And with how talked up the Jury threat of Oaki was, I think that use of redemption was paramount for whoever came back in. Everyone has their own rubric, but I personally an severely against holding redemption against people because I think it is frankly disrespectful to the mods and the style of the game. Redemption was a tool, much like the 5 billion idols and the luck based challenges as the game wore on.
So to my own post. I am torn, I am not voting revali I don't think anyone will be surprised by that. I think that there needs to be more meditation for an UTR game to hold weight. However I think Mipha and Urbosa have both shown exemplary manipulation of the game mechanics. I am undecided between you two.
So Mipha: Can you tell me the thoughts behind the idol play on Heart Container? What was your thought process and such and how nervy about it were you feeling about it. Obviously you didn't need it. But like I would say there were idol plays that weren't required as per votes, but required as per state of game. Like Oven needed to play his idol to eliminate me, but the crux was leveraging it. While I would say Link was thoroughly duped in to using his. So yeah, give me the break down of your internal thoughts for that TC. Because I think that TC was the TC where both of our games had to restart. In terms of Kass' rubric, I would say that idol play hurt your game overall more than any other single action.
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Oaki
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Mipha
Jun 8, 2020 20:18:48 GMT -5
Mipha likes this
Post by Oaki on Jun 8, 2020 20:18:48 GMT -5
Mipha <3
I think my big thing I want to highlight here before I go and do my big contemplation is that I think that your game relying on the Resurrection Chamber twist is no different than Urbosa's relying on advantages. We signed up for a complex game. So to me, your time in the chamber is just as valid as Urbosa's bag of tricks. Both of which I do think need to be recognised.
Where my head is at is that Revali's game is pretty straight forward. It makes it easy to just decide "approve or don't approve". Whereas yours and Urbosa's are much more complicated. You were able to use all the peripherals like headlight fluid and side cars and so your games are going to look different. And so figuring out where they rank in relation to the much easier to identify game is what's getting my head spinning.
I'm going to be still reading this thread while I figure out how I feel about your respective games but I wanted to do a formal "I think that you've done well to get here and I really enjoyed our time together".
If you want to make any pitches/clarify anything from my end I'm happy to do so but keep on riding!
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Riju
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Mipha
Jun 8, 2020 22:12:31 GMT -5
Post by Riju on Jun 8, 2020 22:12:31 GMT -5
Miphaaaaaaaaa!!!! I'm so proud of you for making it here. It's always great to see one of your BFF's make it to the end if you can't! I said this in jury land and I'll say it here, although many think I'm voting for you no matter what, I am going to vote for whoever I think played the best game. I want to vote for the player who made this game THEIRS instead of just bending to whatever twist happened and surviving round-by-round.
so! Question time. Please note, I want you to give an answer for yourself, for Revali, and for Urbosa. What twist of the game did you anticipate and/or masterfully use to your advantage, and what was your biggest lost opportunity for making a big move? For you specifically, I'd like to hear of a twist other than coming back to life because I was there for it and already know what happened there (although it was impressive and proud of you).
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Mipha
Hyrule Castle
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Mipha
Jun 9, 2020 12:40:56 GMT -5
Post by Mipha on Jun 9, 2020 12:40:56 GMT -5
@kass - if you had had the Redemption Revelation earlier (say, at F13), what would be your play from then on? If you realised your gameplay was going to get you voted out, what specifically would you have done differently?
This question is hard to answer and I had to give it a bit of thought. Not thinking objectively and putting aside what I already knew isn't an easy thing for me. But... the factors I'm using to answer this question are as follows: - I'm playing an aggressive social game vs a passive one
- I do not have Riju's idol
- I have a higher awareness of who threats are but not what Jury thinks are threats
- I do not have idol information
My first inclination would be that I'm in trouble and need to find a select few that I could trust to not vote me. This would probably be Sidon/Patricia/Link/Oaki/Oven (although picking Oven would probably backfire as he was close with Urbosa). I would especially want to get on the same page with Sidon/Patty about what our F3 plans were and what our targets should be instead of letting Patty just go off on what she felt was right. I didn't offer much input on the vote for F13 and F12 because I was playing a passive social game and I didn't want to make waves.
When I feel in danger, my gut reaction is always to approach the person who I think is targeting me and try to make amends. You can't let feelings fester and if I knew that Revali wanted me out so bad at this point in the game, I probably would have talked to him about it. Instead, I would focus on Kass/Kohga/Horse as I wasn't sure what combination of alliances were happening there. This is hard to say if it would work at all because it depends on how receptive you all are vs how persuasive I am. It worked with Kohga in my game but it also happened at the appropriate time and after several rounds of awkward standoff.
I did sort of open myself up to Horse F13 and we agreed to tell each other if we were being targeted but I would likely have taken that even further explaining that I'm not in a good position with only Patty truely being on my side and I'm looking for new avenues. Basically I needed to not be complacent assuming I was in a good UTR spot and if my revelation shows me that there are strong alliances with horse/Revali/Epona or Kohga/Kass or whatever else, then I would fight harder to be included in those and not focus so much on Link/Oven/Hunnie who I thought were on the bottom.
Things really would have turned around if I gave Sidon more attention and tried harder with Kass like he wanted me too. If I did somehow manage to convince Kass that I wanted to play a part in their alliance, then maybe Sidon wouldn't have been so nervous about Patty or maybe I wouldn't have been the secondary vote or at the very least, I would find out that Revali didn't like me and Urbosa was just telling me fluff (although I caught onto that with no need of a revelation)
The rest of the game would be hard to predict as I didn't get to see anything on what happened with the popular vs unpopular tribe. I imagine I would be on the bottom half and that Patty still goes sometime soon unless I'm on the unpopular with her/sidon instead of someone like Revali. Oaki probably goes there instead of Patty although I think the next round really puts pressure on Patty/myself and I have to let her go if I don't want to be the target. Everyone seemed to know about that relationship. The rest of the game is probably me being tight with Sidon/Kass but still coming to the same conclusion that Kass/Sidon can't get too far with me and Urbosa needed to go first chance we got. That chance will never come so it's possible I don't actually turn on my team this time in order to hurt the unstoppable Urbosa's game and trying to force players like Epona/Urbosa/Oven that if they want to take out a good player, they need to idol to do it.
I think I still lose in this situation because of items and not a great challenge performance. I can still win passwords so thats at least as safe round but I won't get anymore immunities and I don't have people considering me so much of a goat anymore. I don't know who comes back either... Horse or Patty probably? I sort of knocked out several strong challenge players though on Redemption so it could even just be Magda idk.
I would latch onto whoever did come back as I'm not above making friends with people on the bottom to take out people up top.
-----
Overall, I played with a confidence in merge that I didn't have pre-merge and I have to say that it's because I had jury information. It's easy to just play to survive and make moves that benefit you when everyone just considers you a redemption player. I fully embraced that title and pushed people to consider me weak and that type of confidence is hard to have in a game with so many idols and items and nothing yourself which is why Revali played the way he did. He couldn't step out of line or a slight target on him could mean death no matter how many allies he had supporting.
Basically Kass, I'm honored you think I played a decent game and I'm super proud of myself for navigating the way I did but without redemption, no I wouldn't have gotten here and I wouldn't have won or at the very least, it would be a super slim chance. If you don't want to consider redemption a valid part of the game, then that sucks for me haha, but I have nothing else to prove I'm a good winner with "what if" scenarios.
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Mipha
Hyrule Castle
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Mipha
Jun 9, 2020 13:44:46 GMT -5
Post by Mipha on Jun 9, 2020 13:44:46 GMT -5
So Mipha: Can you tell me the thoughts behind the idol play on Heart Container? What was your thought process and such and how nervy about it were you feeling about it. Obviously you didn't need it. But like I would say there were idol plays that weren't required as per votes, but required as per state of game. Like Oven needed to play his idol to eliminate me, but the crux was leveraging it. While I would say Link was thoroughly duped in to using his. So yeah, give me the break down of your internal thoughts for that TC. Because I think that TC was the TC where both of our games had to restart. In terms of Kass' rubric, I would say that idol play hurt your game overall more than any other single action. I have no qualms with what Patty has said but I do want to point out that I only got one item from redemption with her if that's relevant at all. Yeah I can go over that round with you. I don't think I'm aloud to quote my confessional right? I'll just paraphrase what I said that round. If mods allow quotes, I'll quote something later too. "I was ok with the simple vote especially since Robbie wasn't particularly active but I hated the tribe. I did think Urbosa was on my side at the time as she was at least active with me and sympathizing with my stress but it was her calm demeanor that bugged me. Why wasn't she worried at all but instead trying to calm me down? Link wouldn't talk game with me and I complained about how our conversations were just about movies. I don't like how he just agrees with the Robbie vote without contention or concern even though they knew each other way better then that. Revali is even worse and is claiming he has school stuff to do which I believe but also think his immunity means he gets to just coast with whatever. I claimed I felt 45% safe." Reading over things I also quote a PM from Revali a bit into tribal where he talked about wanting strong allies and I felt "happy he thought I was strong," but I was also nervous and assumed he could easily be targeting me for being social AF since he was so focused on who the social players were. I eventually came to the conclusion that Revali/Link blindsiding me over Urbosa didn't make sense which was incorrect but it was hard to imagine I was the bigger threat then her at the time. What made me play the idol was the risk of being blindsided but mostly Robbie's confidence that I was going. I do think he slipped up that I was the vote but it was impossible for me to tell for sure what was going to happen with Robbie not saying anything to me until an hourish before deadline. If being blindsided wasn't a worry anymore, being idoled out was as Robbie was a potential player from power to have an idol. Immediately after the vote, I was disappointed and had to wonder if Robbie was just always going to be the easy vote but with him being a wildcard and Revali considering me "Social AF," there was just too much potential for me to be blindsided by either an idol or just straight votes with the people that weren't talking with me. Yeah... I didn't need to play the idol but I do believe it was the safe play and I wasn't 100% wrong.
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Mipha
Hyrule Castle
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Mipha
Jun 9, 2020 13:54:39 GMT -5
Post by Mipha on Jun 9, 2020 13:54:39 GMT -5
Mipha <3 I think my big thing I want to highlight here before I go and do my big contemplation is that I think that your game relying on the Resurrection Chamber twist is no different than Urbosa's relying on advantages. We signed up for a complex game. So to me, your time in the chamber is just as valid as Urbosa's bag of tricks. Both of which I do think need to be recognised. Where my head is at is that Revali's game is pretty straight forward. It makes it easy to just decide "approve or don't approve". Whereas yours and Urbosa's are much more complicated. You were able to use all the peripherals like headlight fluid and side cars and so your games are going to look different. And so figuring out where they rank in relation to the much easier to identify game is what's getting my head spinning. I'm going to be still reading this thread while I figure out how I feel about your respective games but I wanted to do a formal "I think that you've done well to get here and I really enjoyed our time together". If you want to make any pitches/clarify anything from my end I'm happy to do so but keep on riding! I definitely had to adapt haha. Thanks for being supportive of everyone and make this whole situation a bit more enjoyable. I'm actively having fun with it all and you are certainly part of the reason. I have nothing I want to pitch to you right now but I do hope you at least read my final speech before making a decision in case that somehow impacts you. Cya on the other side cycle bro!
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