Hunnie
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Mipha
Jun 8, 2020 0:37:20 GMT -5
Post by Hunnie on Jun 8, 2020 0:37:20 GMT -5
Hey Mipha! I never had the pleasure of playing with the post-Redemption Mipha, but from your write-up, she sounds pretty badass. I just have a few questions:
1. You owned up that you messed up which led to your first elimination, and neither Urbosa nor Revali have made mistakes that resulted in them being voted out. But I understand that there is a lot of luck in this game - can you point to any examples where Urbosa and/or Revali misplayed to at least the same extent that Mipha 1.0 misplayed?
2. Imagine that Patricia doesn't play her idol and she is voted off instead of you. Where would you stand at that point in the game, and how well do you think you would do overall?
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Mipha
Hyrule Castle
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Mipha
Jun 8, 2020 0:53:25 GMT -5
Post by Mipha on Jun 8, 2020 0:53:25 GMT -5
I assume it was because I was the least likely to play an idol. It seemed inconsequential to ask about. I don't blame you for prioritizing yourself. Considering the moved vote proved you were the target at one point. For our F3 plot to have a chance we would have needed Extreme Ways: DesignateUrbosa was nearly impossible to mechanically remove. So perhaps its better we failed so I didn't take your slot instead and make the FTC less competitive. Building on social connection questions: During each stage of the game (tribes, redemption merge rounds etc whichever you find are important distinctions) who were your closest allies and how did you build those bonds? As a followup describe how those relationships inevitably ended as well. Maybe the least likely to have an idol played on but not having one is iffy. Either way, no sense asking what could have happened as it is what it is. The outs were using items in response as we knew the other side had at least 2 vote manipulation things. The only possible way Urbosa got removed was to use an idol nullifier in conjunction with the Kohga arrow or that the final four challenge was rubee related so I focused on what I could do instead of what I couldn't. I enjoy Social Questions as I play this game for social reasons. I'm sorry if this gets long as there were many stages to the game so I will try to be succinct. (Came back to say that I totally failed... giving a rundown of your game takes forever ) There were multiple ways to go about this and I thought about just explaining my relation to each player but perhaps a breakdown of my social play during each tribe is better. Spoilered to try and make it easier to read. Wisdom -
The first tribe I focused on building connections as quickly as possible to avoid being an easy target. Epona was a clear favorite for me and I recognized Urbosa as a social threat and the one person everyone liked. I formed an alliance with Oven/Epona which we tried to touch on later but ultimately failed as Epona never got to be on a tribe with me again. I also feel I developed strong initial bonds with the remaining three (Pelison/Hunnie/Urbosa) that would come into effect later.
Zora -
This was my first attempt to actually create something lasting. Patricia approached me about an alliance and asking if I was trying to make cross tribal communication. To be honest, I was not but I did follow people who I thought were interesting not realizing she would take that as a hint.
Fortunately she did and the three of us quickly posted in general about how we should work together and I showed each of them my idol to help build that trust. We tried to develop ways of communication to talk with each other cross tribal and I genuinely believe we would have taken each other to FTC if able.
While it was impossible to make the FTC happen after Riju got blindsided, the bond still helped me gain another Idol from Riju and an extra FTC vote from Patricia in the form of an item. We continued to support each other, even in redemption and I feel blessed having had the chance to meet them. These two were my closest allies in the game without a doubt.
Fake 15 -
This was my first chance to really show off my social prowess and I made as many strong first impressions as I could. Oaki and I developed an alliance that I was looking forward to working with through our connection with Riju and Pelison as well as our straightforward attitude. Oaki definitely earns the prize as my top ally for this round as we developed the best connection within such a short period of time.
I also found a new side of Pelison that I appreciated and looked forward to working with. We bonded and likely would have reunited with Riju/Oaki as a strong 4 if things hadn't gone so poorly in the next tribal for them all.
An example just to show the type of levity I tried to bring, here was my starting PM to Kohga. First impressions are fun and I try to make everything unique per person. If he liked it or not, I'm not sure as it took a while for Kohga and I to become friends but that doesn't stop me from wanting to be a dolty little idiot and humble myself to others.
I'll let you finish the song if you so choose Hi, I'm Mipha. It's a pleasure to meet you even if it might be short lived. N-Nooooo NO!!! I did the worst thinkable thing... omg Mipha! T-T YOUR? Really Mipha? Who taught you how to grammar? My life is over... I'll never be able to show myself to Link ever again. Now every time we message each other, you will see my hideous failure of a PM title and be reminded that Mipha is a ditz.....
WHY!!! Hahaha! I have a feeling I'm gonna like you. We can start a new PM chain!
Heart Container -
But my wacky fun side is what hurt me here. I was too noticeable as a social player and Revali/Urbosa/Robbie/Link all saw fit to try and take me out early. I took notice of the slow PMs and awkward messaging and decided I might actually be in danger. It was so easy to have conversations flow in every other point of the game and while Urbosa stayed active, her posts felt like appeasement at times and I just had to keep up a pleasant facade until I could prove what they really wanted. Fortunately, Robbie spilled the beans on how much he disliked me and I got away. This was the start of my first bad relations between Robbie/Revali/Urbosa as I became a little more suspicious and cautious around them. Rudania? -I got my first look into Sidon and we became fast friends. I tried the approach of talking idols with him as it worked with Zora but not so much here. We still got along as far as I could tell and it started a good relationship that would eventually benefit me. Hunnie and I grew closer as well and she warned me of cross tribal alliances that she was apart of although how much of that was trust, I'm not sure. Point being, she put herself out to try and connect and that helped convince me she was worth fighting for on Tarry Town. Tarry Town - My relation with Urbosa took a dive after my elimination here as I was already worried she wasn't telling me the truth. The link elimination didn't go anywhere close to what I was hoping for and really pointed out who was on whose side. The only person I trusted completely was Patricia and possibly Oaki.
Oven/Link/Hunnie were all people I viewed as being on the bottom of alliances and I wanted to try and find a way to pull them in. If someone tells me who the "easy vote" is, my first inclination is to talk with that person about how they are feeling and try to make a connection if I don't have one already. I did this hard with Link as 1.) I don't want him Idoling me out. 2.) Being friends with people helps your jury case. 3) I genuinely like making connections so it's not like I'm putting myself out?
This isn't to say I'm belittling my relationship with Link but we both knew everyone in the game was against him that first round as the easy play just makes sense. I wanted to keep all options open and try to apply pressure on the ones attempting to take control. In my eyes, I saw that as Epona/Horse but alas, Urbosa/Hunnie/Oven didn't exactly care to do that.
[/font] Redemption -This round is important and if you read nothing else, at least read this.
I lost. I felt slightly defeated and apathetic and decided to just join in on discussing the game with players either through PMs or in public chat. I reconnected with people and met new friends while trying to bond with Magda. I was still "playing" but not until I realized why I lost and that the vote was on Pelison with a split on me. I felt betrayed by Urbosa/Sidon/Hunnie especially and realized I was playing the wrong game.
I made it very clear to people on redemption that I wanted back in and would win if I did it. Horse and I talked more strategy on redemption then we ever did in game. Patricia and Riju both supported me as I did them and we pooled our resources together.
I reached out to Hunnie trying to support her as I knew what it felt like to be defeated and feel betrayed.
I actively asked in public forums who people thought were threats and while only a few answered that question, it did spark activity on who was leading the game and who seemed to be the stronger players. It's easy to be genuine with people when there is no pressure to vote each other out and I was very open with everyone there. Merge -Oof this is getting long sorry -_- Sidon was happy to see me and humbled himself. We had a great chat and got back on the same terms, discussing what had happened and trying to find ways to move forward. It worked but I always felt I wasn't going to win playing nice or being spoon fed. I was honest with Sidon, even showing him my idol after the blindside on Kass. I did everything I could to keep him in the game because out of everyone, I put the most social effort into him and that's likely why he fought so hard for me too. In the end, I didn't see how voting out Revali at 6 would help me win so I voted for Sidon and accepted that he would be upset at me.
Kass was similar story. I didn't have to try nearly as hard with him after winning Sidon to my side. Our final interaction was him telling me how no one trusted me and everyone hated me and you know... maybe that was partially true. But wasn't focusing on making Kass/Sidon/Urbosa/Epona like me... And all my relationships with them can just be summed up as me wanting them out and not caring how it happened. They certainly didn't care when I was kicked out and I was going to focus on the people that I knew cared for me.
Oven/Oaki were two such people. I came right out and tried to reignite my relationship with Oaki offering him an F2 and hoping we had some items to protect ourselves with. It didn't matter as he vanished the turn he was voted out but at least I tried keeping our relation strong Oven. It was just hard to know if you would ever trust me over Urbosa.
I end with Kohga as that relationship was very important to me being here. If Patty was my Pre-game number 1 and Oaki/Sidon were my mid... then Kohga was my late game number 1 which made the last vote actually really hard. Kohga never gave me the time of day during Merge and I tried so many different methods between being light hearted or straight forward asking about idols. No matter what I did, he just seemed to be put off and it was reasonable he didn't trust me. He was good friends with my enemies.
So I humbled myself hard. I pretty much got down on my knees asking why and tried to repair the damage done. He admitted he didn't trust me and that I seem to be spreading lies everywhere. We came to terms with each other and eventually learned to trust which led to the f3 with Revali and the betrayal of Epona/Sidon. Kohga deserves all the respect in the world and played as clean a game as he could.
[/font]
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Mipha
Hyrule Castle
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Mipha
Jun 8, 2020 0:57:32 GMT -5
Post by Mipha on Jun 8, 2020 0:57:32 GMT -5
whats your opinion of extinction/redemption/resurrection mechanics in general? should they exist What up Magda? I would never put the mechanic into my own game but I also wouldn't put in 11 idols so.... idk, it's hard to accept one as a mechanic and not the other. And it's not that I don't approve of coming back into the game, it's that I know it's a controversial topic and influences players attitudes negatively at times.
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Pelison
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Mipha
Jun 8, 2020 1:05:15 GMT -5
Post by Pelison on Jun 8, 2020 1:05:15 GMT -5
I lost. I felt slightly defeated and apathetic and decided to just join in on discussing the game with players either through PMs or in public chat. I reconnected with people and met new friends while trying to bond with Magda. I was still "playing" but not until I realized why I lost and that the vote was on Pelison with a split on me. Wait, what's this referring to?
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Mipha
Hyrule Castle
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Mipha
Jun 8, 2020 1:07:30 GMT -5
Post by Mipha on Jun 8, 2020 1:07:30 GMT -5
So I know you mentioned that coming back into the game changed how you were playing. And I can definitely agree that coming back into the game shifted my mindset/strategy/focus. Though from our interaction during the rugby scrum (secret alliance) and our interactions post-chamber return (screaming at me to play my cryosleep right as I got eliminated), I feel like I wasn't in a great spot to see exactly how your game shifted pre-chamber and post-chamber. Could you highlight the most significant decision you made pre-chamber that you wouldn't have made post-chamber was, and then what the most significant move post-chamber that you made which you wouldn't have made pre-chamber? Because I feel like the chamber really provided us with an in-game avenue to re-evaluate our play in relation to the cast, and having an explicit example of how you were able to grow from the chamber and take advantage of the opportunity that the (controversial) twist provided you with. This game was about chaos and twists and I don't think anyone can hold it against you that you used a twist to get here while simultaneously recognising that Urbosa held basically every advantage, most of which were from the ludicrous number of twists. So regardless of whether or not the chamber should have been here, my above question wants to really break down how it affected your gameplay. But Oven does raise the good point that the closest to any game discussion I got was "do you want to work together if we re-enter" but no item transfers. Yeah interesting question ummm hmm... It's much easier to show examples of what I did post game as aggressive moves are easy to show off. For example, I don't usually like spreading false information as it ends up always coming back to you. Telling Kass one thing about redemption but telling Epona something else to see how the information flows is not my style but it did work to some extent. Kass told me I was spreading his name and asked me to stop but the people I told that Kass was a threat to was actually very small. I also would never have backstabbed Sidon on 6 as the path of least resistance is usually safer for a player trying to keep good on social ties. But you want examples of pre-game play that aggressive Mipha wouldn't have done or would have done differently right? I suppose a big one would be trying to make a move on Heart Container vs Urbosa. The thought crossed my mind as she was a social threat from Wisdom and having the idol meant I had a little security if he blew back into my face. I didn't make that play though because I didn't want someone to be pissed at me that early nor did I want everyone telling the world about this play I made before we were even merged. ----- Patty and Horse definitely helped me stir up conversations on redemption btw. Maybe they can back me up but lots more strategy and player threat evaluation happened then what seemed to happen while you were there.
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Mipha
Hyrule Castle
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Mipha
Jun 8, 2020 1:08:19 GMT -5
Post by Mipha on Jun 8, 2020 1:08:19 GMT -5
I lost. I felt slightly defeated and apathetic and decided to just join in on discussing the game with players either through PMs or in public chat. I reconnected with people and met new friends while trying to bond with Magda. I was still "playing" but not until I realized why I lost and that the vote was on Pelison with a split on me. Wait, what's this referring to? Misquote. That should say Patricia. It's in reference to my elimination.
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Pelison
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Mipha
Jun 8, 2020 1:28:38 GMT -5
Post by Pelison on Jun 8, 2020 1:28:38 GMT -5
Sheesh, most people mistake me for a duck, I've never been mistaken for a seal!
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Mipha
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Mipha
Jun 8, 2020 1:32:46 GMT -5
Post by Mipha on Jun 8, 2020 1:32:46 GMT -5
Hey Mipha! I never had the pleasure of playing with the post-Redemption Mipha, but from your write-up, she sounds pretty badass. I just have a few questions: 1. You owned up that you messed up which led to your first elimination, and neither Urbosa nor Revali have made mistakes that resulted in them being voted out. But I understand that there is a lot of luck in this game - can you point to any examples where Urbosa and/or Revali misplayed to at least the same extent that Mipha 1.0 misplayed? 2. Imagine that Patricia doesn't play her idol and she is voted off instead of you. Where would you stand at that point in the game, and how well do you think you would do overall? I did my absolute best! Thanks ^.^ 1.) Yeah fair question. Being eliminated is certainly a huge downfall in a game where you are only meant to have one life. It's the reason redemption is controversial as everyone has the mindset that being eliminated means losing the game. Yes it was a setback and one that I had very little control over, but still a mistake all the same. Urbosa Urbosa didn't have a moment that I can speak of unless it was something that happened while I wasn't there. Her only weakness that I can see is that she couldn't manage close social connections with everyone for fear of her just winning her way to the end (which happened). It's hard to compare to player like that and I understand if it just wins her the game. I would argue that Urbosa didn't misplay because she didn't really get a chance to play. She just won challenges while people did things around. Her speech tries to claim credit for moves that didn't actually happen because of her.
Link she did nothing for or against.
My elimination was Sidon/Kass/Revali.
Oaki was universal.
Kass elimination was me and wouldn't have happened if I didn't make the move. Sure I knew she wanted Kass gone but I was the one that approached her about actually doing it.
Oven elimination was Epona and not even something she wanted.
Sidon/Epona were both things that were going to happen because Kohga/Revali/Myself were planning for it.
The first move I ever saw her make was to freeze Epona and granted, it was a decent move but the plan was always to vote those two out so not sure what it really helped accomplish other then screwing Sidon out of a chance to win immunity at F5.
Urbosa was untouchable so we all just played around her. Revali Revali's story wasn't too different. He wasn't much of a factor throughout and was just coerced into doing things. He made moves early and was complacent in sticking with those plans even if they were falling apart. I would say him allying with Epona/Horse and not ditching the alliance was a pretty costly mistake. He needed to find new avenues and try to make new alliances instead of just being dragged along by the next group.
He targeted Patty and that definitely hurt me so props there but Revali's downfall this game was simply his lack of awareness on where he stood with players. Urbosa and I at least knew we weren't super well liked and who our threats were while Revali foolishly allowed others to just help him not realizing they were doing it for themselves.
On final 4, I realize the smarter choice was to vote out Kohga for me but while Kohga was giving an eloquent and tempting pitch, Revali would just say, "ok let me know if I can answer any questions." He was complacent and unaware and that can be a pretty big flaw. 2.) Probably not great! If Patty goes then I'm forced to play the puppy role to Sidon for much longer and end up without any real stake to my name. I wouldn't have had the time to reflect on the game state and realize who the problems were as well as why my own game was not quite good enough to combat against the remaining team, and I wouldn't have gotten the spirit orb from Riju. Redemption helped me and defined my late game so without going there, I don't know exactly what to expect with my gameplay.
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Mipha
Hyrule Castle
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Mipha
Jun 8, 2020 1:33:23 GMT -5
Post by Mipha on Jun 8, 2020 1:33:23 GMT -5
Sheesh, most people mistake me for a duck, I've never been mistaken for a seal! Sorry it just looks like you put on a few pounds is all
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Link
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Mipha
Jun 8, 2020 11:47:59 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Link on Jun 8, 2020 11:47:59 GMT -5
Help! Zelda will make me sleep on the crappy old couch tonight if I don’t at least ask a question or two. If you were in my position, what question would you ask? Also answer your own question please
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Mipha
Hyrule Castle
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Mipha
Jun 8, 2020 11:48:20 GMT -5
Post by Mipha on Jun 8, 2020 11:48:20 GMT -5
All these complaints about the other two not taking risks or being aggressive and I'm over here like...
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Mipha
Hyrule Castle
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Post by Mipha on Jun 8, 2020 11:48:35 GMT -5
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Revali
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Mipha
Jun 8, 2020 11:53:46 GMT -5
Post by Revali on Jun 8, 2020 11:53:46 GMT -5
This is too apropos for this and I want to get notis anytime anyone posts in a thread so. :heart:
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Mipha
Hyrule Castle
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Mipha
Jun 8, 2020 13:54:33 GMT -5
Post by Mipha on Jun 8, 2020 13:54:33 GMT -5
I would also like to address some points made here. 1. I never claimed ownership of Link's elimination. I said I saw it coming (because I did) and failed to adequately rise to his defense (because I did). Not once did I claim to have orchestrated the vote. 2. When Mipha argues that Oaki's vote was "universal," what I would assume she means is that because the vote was a blow out it appears to have been a consensus. What she fails to realize here is that the vote was originally on her. Until the last hour or so before deadline, at least four votes (mine, Oven's, Revali's, and Kohga's) were on her, and given the displacement of the other votes she would have gone had we not changed our votes last minute. To claim Oaki was the collective choice disregards the fact that Oven had been in legitimate jeopardy as well and highlights that she was dangerously close to getting blindsided a second time. That's not an assumption -- that is something any one of those players can confirm. 3. Again, this is not accurate. I've received clearance from the Guides to share the following PM: That is absolutely the case, and it's only a matter of time until whatever is churning beneath the surface rises up again. If I'm being completely honest here, I've wanted nothing more than to work with you and to get back to the place we were — or at least where I thought/hoped we were — before your elimination. I honestly saw us sitting in the finals together before Patricia's idol came out. I had to drastically alter my plans after that, as I didn't know who I could trust, but I did know that if I didn't act fast I would be joining you shortly after. I'm not sure if it is just me reading too much into things or internalizing my own struggles in the game, but I got the impression you preferred to keep me at arm's length or to otherwise have nothing to do with me once coming back. If that's the case, I completely understand. Please don't take that as an accusation either — I'm sure my inability to fully anticipate what was happening or to help in your hour of need really hurt. I'll be sorry for that for the rest of this game regardless of the outcome. If those feelings have changed — or weren't there to begin with and only a faulty read on my end — then maybe this is the moment we can truly take on the game together when no one expects us to? I felt a spark of hope during the challenge that we might be in a good place again or, at the very least, on the path back to that place. Talks like this, of making big moves, really make me want to take that leap again. That said, if Revali backed off of Epona, then would you potentially be open to Kass? For real this time without Oaki here to shout the idea from the rooftops? This was the first time Kass' name came up in our conversation following the joint immunity win. I raised the idea. Yes, it wouldn't have been successful without Mipha committing to the cause, but the conversation between us -- a conversation I initiated -- could have just as easily receded back into suspicion about one another at this point and we could have proceeded from this juncture just as opposed as we were before. We had both expressed an interest in our challenge thread of making a move here, but it would have likely been left at that without me trying once again to lay my cards on the table. 4. Once more, never took ownership of Oven's elimination or trying to organize a vote against Epona that round. The first I actually underscored as the biggest setback or otherwise the lowest moment in the post-Merge game for me. And Mipha is correct: I didn't want Epona to leave here, either. I'm not exactly sure what her point is here, as trying to make a push for Epona and it not going through ultimately reflects a shortcoming for each of the finalists. 5. As I explained in earlier responses, removing Epona from the calculus at Final Six ensured Sidon went. In addition, it also increased the chances of idols or other items being played in self-defense here. Sidon had the tools at his disposal to flip the vote on Revali, but he wasn't able to do so. Again, my plan was to take out Sidon here and to eliminate Kohga next so I had a hope of making it to FTC if both Epona and I were vulnerable at the vote. Kohga winning immunity forced that plan to change. The plan at Final Six was to blindside Epona. I derailed that, and in doing so prevented a scenario in which one of Mipha or Revali potentially goes at Final Five if Kohga still sidelines me in the challenge and Sidon wins immunity. Oh Fun! Points of contention, sure I'll play. The point of that message wasn't to state what you were claiming, it was to point out what you had little impact on during the game. 1.) Link you had no impact on and the only result was that I lost faith in you to tell me the truth because most of how you have played has been telling me how sweet and awesome I am but I was well aware you have wanted me out for quite some time. 2.) Oh don't worry, I was well aware I was the counter vote to the point of almost Idoling. I showed massive restraint there and it super sucked that Oaki wasn't around to play his item so we could prove just who were liars and who was telling the truth. I had even convinced myself I should just play the idol with the assumption that Oaki plays his item because Idol's don't get used. In the end, Sidon convinced me I was safe and Oaki was a no show so I held back accurately as Oaki being voted out just made more sense if he wasn't going to be here. So tell me again what you did that was so clever or strategic this round? 3.) It is accurate. I was the one who made that happen and there was nothing you could have done to do it without me. Kass was a move I made regardless of what you wanted that round. I suppose if we are quoting our messages now, then I'll dig something up too. I started prodding Revali/Oven to vote Kass far before you suggested it to me because if you didn't, I knew you would at least vote him with us if we had 3 strong. You were so cautious about committing to anything that I had to literally pave the way for you to do it. I sent this before you asked for anything to try and set you up for a Kass vote: What are your thoughts on the vote then? I surprisingly haven't heard any names post challenge reveal although prior to it, I had heard you had beef with Kass and the murmurs made it seem like that fight might happen. So no, it wasn't the first time Kass was mentioned in our conversation. Meanwhile, just before tribal starts I'm telling Oven that if I get immunity, it might be the push we needed to finally go for Kass here while everyone goes for another easy vote on... well probably Oven. All the while I had to humor him that you two weren't that close just to get you guys to feel safe that this was a good move. 4.) My point is once again, you had no influence over what happened. Revali brought up the great point that with your plethora of items, you could have easily saved your biggest ally in Oven and took out a threat. It's not like it would have hurt your game as the same result would have happened with you just winning immunity to the end. Instead, you just let us play and did your own thing. 5.) Would your plan have even worked anyways? We would have still voted Epona and Kohga didn't use any of his items either. You were stuck with him. Yes, you finally made a move and saved Epona but it didn't change the end result of the game as you weren't in control of the vote anymore. It was Kohga/Myself/Revali that had vote power. Epona would have been the target regardless, not one of me or Revali.
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Revali
Hyrule Castle
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Mipha
Jun 8, 2020 14:24:03 GMT -5
Post by Revali on Jun 8, 2020 14:24:03 GMT -5
So I have a serious question about this round. Like, what were you doing in your conversation with me?
Like seriously, you started out this round and were like "let's do Epona" and I was like "do you have the votes? do you want to sell me?"
And then you just dropped it thinking me explicitly saying I was open to the vote meant I wasn't going to follow it.
And then were like "instead I hear Oven."
And I was like "It sounds like Sidon might not want to vote Oven, we might have the votes to do something" To which you replied "Oven it is!" as if that was the reply I was expecting.
And then you seemed unsure of if I, person who has always been fine with a Kass vote, would be fine with voting Kass.
Like were you fishing for a reaction or something?
Also Urbo if you are gonna use that PM of yours maybe you shouldn't have sent this one 3 minutes after: Seems to me that Kass was mentioned to Oven before you is all.
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