Pelison
Blights
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Urbosa
Jun 7, 2020 1:48:15 GMT -5
Post by Pelison on Jun 7, 2020 1:48:15 GMT -5
All jokes aside, I feel like you laid out your game pretty thoroughly in your post so it's tough to come up with a question, especially since I went out pre-merge and we were only on our starting tribe together (I could hash out whatever from that time but that seems boring and pointless so I won't bother).
That said, so you talked about how you came in hoping to be kind of in the middle of the pack, not stand out too much too early, and you failed at that because everyone on Wisdom identified you as being at the hub of things round one, and in the post-merge, you quickly rose to prominence as a challenge threat (to say nothing of the items you possessed), being one of the biggest targets in the game who only survived the one time you weren't immune because you had an idol that everyone was convinced you were going to play.
So here's my question, I think that an argument could be made that Revali played the game you intended to play and failed to execute, staying behind the scenes and not being a threat while watching big names like Kass, Sidon, Epona, and Kohga get cut down, and even getting you to ensure he was saved at 5 with your eponymous power. Do you agree with the idea that he played the game you wanted to play? If so, why shouldn't he win over you?
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Prince Sidon
Blights
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Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson of Hyrule
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Urbosa
Jun 7, 2020 1:48:54 GMT -5
Post by Prince Sidon on Jun 7, 2020 1:48:54 GMT -5
Question 2: Since you basically completely disregarded me and stopped playing a social game with me from Final 10 onwards, why should I vote for you? I understand the idea of you not needing me, but don't you need my jury vote? How does throwing me by the wayside help you with that? Our relationship was a bit more complicated than me simply casting you aside, and the fallout came much later than Final 10 (at least to me). Strategically, we really didn't reach the point of no return until Kass left — which is interesting given the fact you seemed receptive to his elimination the round prior. Even after that, though, we had an extensive conversation in which we put everything on the table, which I would be happy to share with the group if need be. That conversation, that effort to reach a shaky truce or to at least maintain a cordial, casual dialogue, continued until you left. Yes, I wasn't always able to respond at a rapid pace, but I gave you — and everyone else — a heads up on that front. I would also argue that a social game does not necessarily equate to strategic game: By this, I mean that we had good conversations before, during, and after Merge that did not revolve around collaborating on a game level. I couldn't trust you. I knew you and Oaki were close, and you lied to me about it. I suspected you and Kass had entertained the idea of cutting me. If you refer to my message to Oaki in my opening statements, I could see the trajectory you intended to follow to the end, and it didn't involve me. So I pulled back. Instead of engaging in strategic conversations we both knew would be artificial, I tried maintaining conversations to at least continue bonding on a personal level. I didn't want to provide you (or anyone) with ammunition that could be misconstrued or otherwise taken out of context. The few times we did try to talk game devolved into guilt trips and mind games, and like I said in my response to Kohga, I didn't have the emotional capital to engage in that continued barrage. I own that, and the Jury can cast aspersions my way for doing so, but not once did I let my end of the conversation slip into personal attacks. In the face of adversity and backlash, I kept a level head and evened, respectful tongue — something multiple players in this game can attest to. That said, I always kept things oriented toward game qualities — I never called you "shady" or "evil" or a "mastermind," though I have a pretty decent idea as to who tweaked the narrative to suggest so. On more than one occasion, I referred to you as the Tony of this game: a charismatic personality who was utilizing a brilliant social strategy. I told players I respected that, but I also told those same players that you were a threat. All of this I have also expressed to you multiple times. Hylia, we exchanged PMs up until your elimination, so while I assume my full share of the blame for our drifting apart, I also disagree with the characterization. I never just cast you aside. For these reasons, in addition to the multitudes of game-related moves I've laid out above — precise implementation of items, utilizing a social game that placed me at the center of a network of information that enabled me to respond to shifts in dynamics with speed and caution, and autonomy over my personal journey — I believe I have earned the title of Sole Survivor. Ultimately, your vote is exactly that: yours. I would appreciate your support, but I also respect whatever decision you reach.  |
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Royal White Horse
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New Member
neigh
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Urbosa
Jun 7, 2020 1:52:10 GMT -5
Post by Royal White Horse on Jun 7, 2020 1:52:10 GMT -5
Well shit, I forgot to include dashes in my limitations! Urbosa, you are absolutely not allowed to use any dashes whatsoever in your answer to my "question"!
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Pelison
Blights
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Urbosa
Jun 7, 2020 1:55:36 GMT -5
Post by Pelison on Jun 7, 2020 1:55:36 GMT -5
Both em dashes AND en dashes? God, don't tell me this extends to hyphens too...
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Urbosa
Hyrule Castle
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Urbosa
Jun 7, 2020 1:58:29 GMT -5
Post by Urbosa on Jun 7, 2020 1:58:29 GMT -5
Dear Horse gods you write a lot. I really don't have any questions for you, but I am forced to ask one anyway. I really don't even care about asking you for lol gifs question, so I'm going to make my question be: sum up your entire game and why I should vote for you in one single sentence, which a maximum of, hmmm, let's say five commas/semicolons. Which is really to say, make sure it's not as long as this "question" is. Despite the odds, I made my own path to the end of this game through a mixture of cunning, courage, and an unbridled force of will. <3 |
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Urbosa
Hyrule Castle
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Posts - 96
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Urbosa
Jun 7, 2020 1:59:30 GMT -5
Post by Urbosa on Jun 7, 2020 1:59:30 GMT -5
The first person to respond to me with the number of emdashes that Urbosa used on this page receives an extra jury vote. I suppose you can think of me as the Emily Dickinson of Hyrule. I promise to shut myself away for another century after — this is over.  |
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Patricia
Blights
New Member
Can you stop dropping that Sweetie
Posts - 176
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Urbosa
Jun 7, 2020 2:01:00 GMT -5
Post by Patricia on Jun 7, 2020 2:01:00 GMT -5
How do you feel about the challenges overall in this game?
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Master Kohga
Blights
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Urbosa
Jun 7, 2020 2:10:52 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Master Kohga on Jun 7, 2020 2:10:52 GMT -5
Emily Dickinson may be admirable in some ways but punctuation is definitely not one of them
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Urbosa
Hyrule Castle
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Urbosa
Jun 7, 2020 2:26:08 GMT -5
Post by Urbosa on Jun 7, 2020 2:26:08 GMT -5
All jokes aside, I feel like you laid out your game pretty thoroughly in your post so it's tough to come up with a question, especially since I went out pre-merge and we were only on our starting tribe together (I could hash out whatever from that time but that seems boring and pointless so I won't bother). That said, so you talked about how you came in hoping to be kind of in the middle of the pack, not stand out too much too early, and you failed at that because everyone on Wisdom identified you as being at the hub of things round one, and in the post-merge, you quickly rose to prominence as a challenge threat (to say nothing of the items you possessed), being one of the biggest targets in the game who only survived the one time you weren't immune because you had an idol that everyone was convinced you were going to play. So here's my question, I think that an argument could be made that Revali played the game you intended to play and failed to execute, staying behind the scenes and not being a threat while watching big names like Kass, Sidon, Epona, and Kohga get cut down, and even getting you to ensure he was saved at 5 with your eponymous power. Do you agree with the idea that he played the game you wanted to play? If so, why shouldn't he win over you? I do not agree with that idea. Revali has been an excellent player and ally through the game for a variety of reasons — he was compassionate, analytical, and honest to a fault. That said, there is a difference between keeping a low profile while actively advancing one's own agenda and playing a passive game that leaves you at the mercy of others. Without my reads on the vote in Heart Container and Oaki's elimination, Revali would have found himself caught with his hand in the proverbial cookie jar. Again during Kass' elimination, Revali escaped a trip the Jury because others were able to anticipate the votes not falling where people claimed: If it had been a 4-4 split between Oven and Revali, then my fellow champion's prospects would have looked decidedly more bleak. And I would like to backtrack a bit to address an earlier point: I was vulnerable for quite a few tumultuous votes (without items, too) leading into Tarrey Town and the official Merge, and I was still viewed as a threat. As I said above, the vote we both attended could have easily resulted in my elimination, but I utilized the bonds made with Kass and Kohga and followed through on a plan with Link to ensure that didn't happen. Despite being that "hub," that Wisdom target from the first round of the game, I was able to navigate through each shuffle and swap by making connections with players who I knew were in similar situations: Revali, Link, Kohga, etc. Not once did I take my position in the game for granted, and at every turn I strived to ensure I was setting myself up to continue building momentum. |
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Urbosa
Hyrule Castle
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Urbosa
Jun 7, 2020 2:30:41 GMT -5
Post by Urbosa on Jun 7, 2020 2:30:41 GMT -5
How do you feel about the challenges overall in this game? In hindsight, I would say I much preferred some of the earlier Tribal Challenges to the individual contests. I loved the Secret Clubs Secret challenge (even though most players had already found their groups by the time I arrived), and both the Cooking with Link and Divine Beast challenges were equal parts fun and maddening. By and large, many of the later immunities depended largely on luck, which is why I never allowed myself to get comfortable with the necklace or to otherwise assume I would be able to continue that challenge run. |
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Pelison
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Urbosa
Jun 7, 2020 2:53:33 GMT -5
Post by Pelison on Jun 7, 2020 2:53:33 GMT -5
I do not agree with that idea. Revali has been an excellent player and ally through the game for a variety of reasons — he was compassionate, analytical, and honest to a fault. That said, there is a difference between keeping a low profile while actively advancing one's own agenda and playing a passive game that leaves you at the mercy of others. Okay, so followup to this, you were effectively immune from round 8(?), does that mean everyone was just at your mercy during that time and thus you're deserving? Like they couldn't get you out if they wanted except at 5, and even then that would have taken a level of coordination that I'd consider to be unlikely considering they all knew you had an idol and given the powers that were played. I realize your argument is that you did more than just winning challenges/getting items, which I appreciate, but I'm curious if you think that the simple fact of being immune from that time to FTC makes you intrinsically more deserving than Revali or Mipha, completely setting aside any other work you did. |
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Ancient Oven
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*beep*
Posts - 162
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Urbosa
Jun 7, 2020 3:38:52 GMT -5
Post by Ancient Oven on Jun 7, 2020 3:38:52 GMT -5
I don't even know what a Sensor+ is. What I recall is immediately after the auction you stated you bid on everything but received nothing. I do not think a more cheeky lie was told to me this entire game!
I'm sure the answer to this isn't interesting to everyone but can you make a list of the strategies you used in the later challenges as well as what items you had, where you got them and what they did? I'm curious to know how many more were sitting in your pockets unused.
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Kass
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Urbosa
Jun 7, 2020 6:00:23 GMT -5
Post by Kass on Jun 7, 2020 6:00:23 GMT -5
This concern only intensified after Kass approached me with the idea to throw the challenge as a means by which to keep other allies (Sidon) safe. Instead of entertaining the idea as I know I should have, I immediately pushed back by saying it was too much of a risk. Having just come out of a vote with an idol play, I wasn’t too keen on willingly putting myself in harm’s way in a six-person TC. I also argued we had no idea what other factors might come into play, which meant we could be walking into a situation where, while our motives were pure, we stood the risk of everything backfiring. This disagreement was the defining moment in which I knew my path forward with Kass had likely disappeared. From my perspective, he was willing to endanger one ally — me — to prioritize keeping Sidon safe. From his perspective, I came across as unwilling to protect Sidon or to collaborate with him, which I knew would ultimately lead to friction down the road. I want to focus on this for my first question. As far as I'm aware, I never outright mentioned to you that I was disappointed in you about this so I was (and still am) impressed by your insight in knowing how much of a defining moment that was. Mods said I could quote my own posts from my confessional, so I'm going to do so here: ---I'm not allowed to quote this, but it's the post where you said Sidon would be better served by us keeping ourselves safe and making sure we got to merge--- This is the response of a coward, especially the last line. We could make the play to ensure our allies are safe, or we could sit back and hope that they get lucky. The latter 'better helps' said ally? Really? Urbosa has disappointed me immensely with this. It is a reasonable strategy to value your own safety over all else and never take a risk that might help your game; it is the strategy of a goat, but it is a reasonable one nonetheless. Spouting said strategy as being for the benefit of one's allies is ridiculous, though.
---Not allowed to quote this either but his response was a 'I'd prefer not but maybe it makes sense'--- And this is why Kohga is a much better ally. Clearly not much of a fan of the idea and doesn't want to commit to it, but when he says he's considering it he actively does so and looks at the ways it could be good for our games, rather than defaulting to thinking of his own safety and trying to just make points against it. I don't fault Kohga or Urbosa for being hesistant, as it's a big step to take if you're not as confident in your position as I am. But these two messages alone show that Kohga is long-term ally material and Urbosa is someone who should be eliminated the moment she is no longer useful to me.
---You saying you were sorry for not considering it more--- This is mildly concerning. Does she have access to my confessional? Or did she get tipped off by Kohga that I genuinely wanted to throw? Hrm. It's fully possible she really looked back and saw what a coward she was being but generally in my experience, once a coward, always a coward. It's more likely she realised she was being too obvious with the cowardice and decided to try to make herself look better, since we had all likely done the challenge already at that point and the danger of actually throwing was past. Until her actions align with her words and she actually does something bold rather than just saying she should be doing something bold, my respect for her remains at rock bottom.
My feeling on this hasn't changed a ton since, especially with your opening post here. "From my perspective, he was willing to endanger one ally — me — to prioritize keeping Sidon safe" - the fact that I was also willing to endanger myself here should tell you that just because I wanted to throw to keep Sidon safe didn't mean I didn't value you as an ally. The difference was that you were in a relatively safe position if we went to tribal - our group would *always* have voted as a three, regardless of who we were up against, whereas Sidon was with two Wisdom players he had never met, who would have huge incentive to just oust him as the easy vote should they go. I was really looking for something to counter this view of you throughout the rest of the game, but I never really got it. That's not really your fault, your constant immunity wins meant that you were never in a position where you *could* make much of a risky move. But even when you were immune, your response to me finding out that you were pushing for me at F9 - trying to pin the whole thing on Oaki and saying that you weren't to blame for any of it - gave me the same sense of well, cowardice. There seemed to be little reason to lie to me about that when you weren't even targetable.
I'm not sure what my question here should be, I more just wanted to highlight why my view on your game is the way that it is. I guess it will be - what response do you have to all of this? Do you think I'm wrong on any of this? And if I'm not, do you think you can justify yourself playing that way to a point where I would vote for you?
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Urbosa
Hyrule Castle
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Urbosa
Jun 7, 2020 13:27:10 GMT -5
Post by Urbosa on Jun 7, 2020 13:27:10 GMT -5
I do not agree with that idea. Revali has been an excellent player and ally through the game for a variety of reasons — he was compassionate, analytical, and honest to a fault. That said, there is a difference between keeping a low profile while actively advancing one's own agenda and playing a passive game that leaves you at the mercy of others. Okay, so followup to this, you were effectively immune from round 8(?), does that mean everyone was just at your mercy during that time and thus you're deserving? Like they couldn't get you out if they wanted except at 5, and even then that would have taken a level of coordination that I'd consider to be unlikely considering they all knew you had an idol and given the powers that were played. I realize your argument is that you did more than just winning challenges/getting items, which I appreciate, but I'm curious if you think that the simple fact of being immune from that time to FTC makes you intrinsically more deserving than Revali or Mipha, completely setting aside any other work you did. No, my argument for being more deserving than either Revali or Mipha was never founded on having won immunities. If I have given that impression, then let me try to clarify: As I've said in my responses to others — and as players such as Kohga have pointed out — the challenges in this game were just as unpredictable as the twists, and as such a majority of them could have gone to anyone. I was lucky on that front, but I will argue that luck plays a large role in any Survivor game. People can (and did) find themselves on the wrong side of numbers at swaps, players were the first to type NINTENDO in their Confessionals to receive idols, the auction awarded items to players by virtue of them outbidding, Oaki was safe for three multiple rounds because of the Yiga ambush twist. Again, these aren't pointed out to delegitimize any player's game, but to underscore that luck was involved all around. How I navigated the many twists and turns of the game despite all these variables is why I feel more deserving of the title. As I've said, the immunity wins ultimately did more harm than good for my social game, but I was able to leverage my safety in a way to build coalitions and to make riskier moves (forcing ties and knowing I could establish a favorable outcome, removing Epona from the equation at F5, and tapping into players' motivation for self-preservation down the line) that ensured the biggest threats in the game were eliminated. This wouldn't have been possible without first getting the confidence through the early and middle phases of the game, either. By the time I began to win immunities, I recognized the risks to my game but, with luck, timing, and an extensive bit of planning, was able to execute my goals. |
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Urbosa
Hyrule Castle
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Urbosa
Jun 7, 2020 13:52:16 GMT -5
Post by Urbosa on Jun 7, 2020 13:52:16 GMT -5
My feeling on this hasn't changed a ton since, especially with your opening post here. "From my perspective, he was willing to endanger one ally — me — to prioritize keeping Sidon safe" - the fact that I was also willing to endanger myself here should tell you that just because I wanted to throw to keep Sidon safe didn't mean I didn't value you as an ally. The difference was that you were in a relatively safe position if we went to tribal - our group would *always* have voted as a three, regardless of who we were up against, whereas Sidon was with two Wisdom players he had never met, who would have huge incentive to just oust him as the easy vote should they go. I was really looking for something to counter this view of you throughout the rest of the game, but I never really got it. That's not really your fault, your constant immunity wins meant that you were never in a position where you *could* make much of a risky move. But even when you were immune, your response to me finding out that you were pushing for me at F9 - trying to pin the whole thing on Oaki and saying that you weren't to blame for any of it - gave me the same sense of well, cowardice. There seemed to be little reason to lie to me about that when you weren't even targetable.
I'm not sure what my question here should be, I more just wanted to highlight why my view on your game is the way that it is. I guess it will be - what response do you have to all of this? Do you think I'm wrong on any of this? And if I'm not, do you think you can justify yourself playing that way to a point where I would vote for you?
Your reservations and perceptions are understandable here, but allow me to elaborate from where I was coming from in that time: As I mentioned in my account of the Kakariko/Gerudo vote, I was already a bit wary of where I ultimately fit into the pecking order of that faction. That, combined with the fact I was only meeting Kohga for the first time and had just come from Heart Container where an idol play could have spelled disaster had the votes stayed on Mipha, I did not think the potential risk of idols, advantages, or twists (the first two of which I did not have at this juncture) justified the pay-off in my eyes. You call it cowardice, but I saw it as pragmatism: Sidon was with two Wisdom players; I was with two Power players. I may have trusted you more at that point, but to me there was no guarantee — especially so early into the round when throwing was first proposed — that Kohga would be on board regardless of who our Tribal partners were. From an outsider's perspective, the general consensus of Oaki's first elimination was that he had thrown and was promptly voted out for doing so. That notion, along with the idea emphasized by Survivor show precedence, seemed to only be inviting issues by willingly tossing a challenge. And I'm glad you brought up the Oaki vote and the preceding talks to eliminate you. I thought a lot of this we had already talked about privately after that elimination, but I will explain further as I anticipate there will be more questions about this: Like I've said several times now, there was no guarantee I would have immunity in the rounds to follow. I may have been immune in the moment, sure, but the next round? The round after? I tried to be as well-rounded as I could this game, but precognition will never be something I put on my resume. Oaki suggested three names: yours, Epona's, and Sidon's. The PM chains will show that. Of those three, I told him I would be on board with you. The PM chains will show that. I already had Oven and Revali on board if the opportunity presented itself. To have Oaki not 15 minutes later run through the tribe and shout the plans from the rooftops, however, endangered not only my game, but Revali's and Oven's, both of whom could still be targeted that round. Actions have consequences, so to just come out and confess that I was pushing for you in the early stages of that vote could have likely ensured one of my allies went home. Where would that have left me in the round to follow if I hadn't won immunity? Outside the numbers facing an uphill battle. There were plenty of reasons to lie in the moment. I was protecting myself. I was ensuring I had a fighting chance in the subsequent rounds. I was using the pandemonium of the moment to divert attention away from Revali or Oven and painting Oaki with the broad brush of being a chaos agent — again, for reasons beyond just protecting myself: His ties to Sidon, his ties to Mipha, his erratic play style that showed we would not be able to work together moving forward despite it being in our mutual interest. I was open and honest with you following that vote, so much so that we collectively recognized that, while we wished each other well in the game, our success necessitated the other's defeat. If all of the above, if having conversations like that and then also telling you I couldn't or wouldn't make promises or plans I couldn't keep during the tie revote demonstrate cowardice, then I understand where you are coming from. For my part, I gunned hard for you because I saw how shrewd of a player you were, how well connected you were, and how your position gave you the best chance of getting to the end. |
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