Revali
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Post by Revali on May 9, 2020 3:18:26 GMT -5
So I'm up way later than I should because well...I'm not tired and I got to thinking, and I have a proposal. Do y'all wanna be a Final 3 together?
I have a couple reasons why I think this is good. The first is basic, with final 3s in order for everyone to have a good shot, all 3 people need to either have different stories or have incredibly similar stories. As such Final 3s that would be the most solid in Survivor: Power v Courage v Wisdom would be members of all the same tribe or all different tribes. And I think for pretty much any of us, it has to be the latter, barring returnees. Like for me, I would be hard pressed to go to the end with people who blindsided me first tribal even if I can work with them in the interim. Royal Horse, you have Link and Sidon and I don't think that is what you'd want to be at the end with both of them. And Epona you haven't seen your original tribe since round 2, so who knows where they'll actually fall. We all had different starting positions and different stories so far in the game, and I think if we come together now that won't be lost by the end so we'll all benefit greatly from a final 3.
Secondly, I think we've worked really well together. Royal Horse and I worked well together when designing the maze, Epona you are very good at being supportive and amazing to talk to, and from what I've heard y'all get along swimmingly. Additionally, we've all been pretty open about our journeys so far in this game from our PMs together, so I think we're definitely on the path to being able to just be open about everything and strategize together despite only having met on this tribe.
Thirdly, I think we can definitely exert a lot of control on the game from merge (which if not next is definitely soon). We all have different relationships with everyone which aside from definitely making the jury up for grabs for all of us at the end, also means that between all 3 of us, we can probably swing votes from literally everyone in the game without people noticing and we all seem to have a good head on our shoulders when it comes to navigating through the game.
Fourthly, I don't think anyone would suspect it as a final 3. Like people will be on the lookout for longstanding alliances or things that were made early on in the game, not really the last tribe that we just got out from after we'd had a host of other relationships. People might guess that y'all like each other because of round 2, but that's not really an issue if I'm your third, since I'd probably hear if anyone wanted to try and break stuff up and be able to alert y'all and enable us to counterplan.
So, what do y'all think? If you have any reservations/ideas please just state them so we can talk it out, cause like, the last thing I think any of us wants is to just smile and nod and not know what's actually up.
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Royal White Horse
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Post by Royal White Horse on May 9, 2020 5:40:14 GMT -5
I have definitely been thinking this in my head too. I am half asleep right now and really need to go to bed, but, in theory I am all for this. I think the three of us all have very strong cases in our own rights to win this game based on the first half here, and with the spread of allies we all have, actually making it to F3 is actually a serious possibility.
I am going to sleep on this and make a more coherent answer, with all the possible ways this could go horribly wrong and beautifully right, but for now, I will say this is a good idea and if Epona is also on board I would say let's try to seriously hash out a plan going forward.
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Epona
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Post by Epona on May 9, 2020 7:46:11 GMT -5
Friends!!! Good morning! It's a resounding YES from me! #TeamWinner
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Epona
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Post by Epona on May 9, 2020 8:04:15 GMT -5
I'm going to get out of bed, make breakfast and migrate to my computer so I can write more.
*prance*
This just became my favorite tribal thread of all time <3
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Royal White Horse
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Post by Royal White Horse on May 9, 2020 8:45:31 GMT -5
So, I did not actually go to sleep like I said I would. But now that Epona is awake and on board, I figure I might as well hash my thoughts out here and now, even if I am totally a zombie right now.
First off: It will definitely be key to keep this a secret. Obviously everyone and their dog knows that Epona and I are allies, I think we can safely assume that. So we have to make sure that no one knows that Revali is with us, something I think we all understand. Point done and done, let's move on to topics that actually require discussion.
Secondly: With all of us easily having allies that span the rest of the cast, we should probably figure out who we want as a solid F6, preferably that means including 3 others who we're all allied to already. From what I can tell, this could easily include Pelison and Urbosa (and maybe Kass?).
Third: Drama. As both of you have already talked to me about, there's a bit of unpacked drama simmering in the wings right now. Mostly against Patty, and between Mipha and Urbosa. Not to mention Revali still hasn't fully dished out with the old Powers, which we could easily lean into if we wanted to vote Kass or Kohga out. Or if Revali feels like that might end very badly for him, we make sure to absolutely stay away from it.
Fourth: Threats. There's still so many big players here, and I think we might have a hard time taking any of them down until later unless they stir up drama and everyone rallies against them. I'm specifically talking about Sidon. I know he's got a lot of allies and as far as I know everyone loves him, so he might end up having to go far with us until we can secure a majority against him. I think right now, the "smallest" players left are Peli and Hunnie, who should make for easy swing votes for us if we need them.
Fifth: Who do we want to see gone ASAP? Personally, the sooner Link is gone, the better for my game. I have no idea if he's gonna come for me or if he'll try to rekindle our old "alliance", but either way, I'd rather not risk having someone I have no idea where I stand with around. The only people I haven't personally met with yet are Patty, Mipha and Kohga, and all of them have some drama we could push. Let me know if there's a certain way I should handle those three that will help us.
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Epona
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Post by Epona on May 9, 2020 10:18:12 GMT -5
OK I want to just go through the list player by player for my own mental unpacking purposes here in a minute, but first let me chime in on this F6 business because I have thoughts!
So I see this as a muddier thing than just picking a firm F6. We're a helluva long way from F6, we're committed to 3 and once we get to six I will absolutely go to rocks if we can't secure a 4th vote for a majority, but I think the most important thing when considering any particular F6 dynamic is whether that 4th vote is there for us. (The second most important consideration is making sure we don't get blown up by an idol play.)
Aiming for 3 and all other considerations aside, flexibility in choosing our path is the way to go. Rigidity will get us in trouble when the others outside of this 3 have no such reason to be rigid.
From a purely selfish standpoint, I don't want to go to F6 with two other Wisdoms. That feels like a situation where I become the bad guy who won't ride with Wisdom Gang into the promised land of an All Wisdom Finale.
Urbosa seems like a natural ally for all of us right now. She's the one Royal and I worked with on the Teebo vote, she's the one Revali just worked with on the Robbie vote. If we're all just particularly friendly with her individually I can see a world where she has the idea to bridge the gap between us and try to bring us together. That would be a major boon. She's also one of those Threats but this is going to be a game where we're navigating a huge number of Threats and having one of the biggest out in front of us is a good thing.
Pelison, I know you had a good relationship with him Revali, but I do not see him as a strong ally to have. He's not a Threat, meaning anyone else around with us at 7 and 6 is going to want to start planning to sit next to him at the finals. He's very passive, meaning he is only going to be strong with us if we strongly hold majority and he'll never go to bat for us. He's strictly a survivalist in my opinion, a Sandra-style anybody but me player, so I'd never trust a guarantee of loyalty from him.
OK momentary break then I'll be back to think out loud player by player and discuss some of those other points!
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Epona
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Post by Epona on May 9, 2020 11:11:00 GMT -5
Kass - Wound up voting with us against Teebo. Voted against Revali in round one but always sounded remorseful about his part in that. Depending on continued relationship-building between Kass/Revali he could either be a good potential ally or a high priority to get out before he guns for Revali. Kohga - Voted with Revali in round one. Apparently went and hunted down Roscoe in a vengeance move over the blindside? Kept me alive rather than Oven, even after voting with Oven the prior round. We have a pretty warm relationship in our PMs. Good potential to keep him onside early in merge with the history of both Revali and Kohga being blindsided on the Magda vote, especially if there is further pursuit of the Power Round 1 TC as narrative fuel (see Patty) Patty - The walrus on a lot of peoples' shit list. There's likely to be a pretty strong anti Patty consensus at some point and we should get on board with it when it happens as long as we can be sure we're not getting the minority vote there in case of idol play.
Link - I've never met him, everything I know is secondhand but it sounded like he was Riju's number two or vice versa so he's probably pretty lost and alone right now. Another fine contender for consensus early merge vote. Sidon - As Royal points out here, Sidon is a big time threat. He's on good terms with lots of people myself included. I don't think targeting him early merge is a smart play though, we can work with him while gathering intel from all sides about his true motivations. Maybe a safer mid merge target when we control a larger share of the vote, but before he could threaten to go on a crazy immunity run.
Hunnie - My original read on Hunnie was the total sweetheart. Our conversation on Wisdom was almost strictly personal connection and just the barest hint of "we're in this majority together right?" strategy talk. But some later things I heard do make her seem a little savvier than all that. Pretty solid ally potential for all three of us? But like I said about Peli in my last post I also see Hunnie as someone who could become that person people try to bring forward to sit next to at the end. Mipha - Queen of being Second Best Wisdom. Mipha was beloved, but Urbo was super beloved and she won that round one immunity, and I don't think Mipha ever got over that. She and I are going to have a very interesting conversation when I do get a chance to talk to her again. Supposedly she was integral to an attempted alliance building during the 15 person scramble with her fellow Zoras Riju and Patty that was trying to rope in Sidon, Kass and maybe Oaki (that last name is conjecture but I see solid supporting evidence). If Mipha and Urbo erupt into all out war that is great cover for us. Peli - See my previous post Urbo - As above
Ancient Oven - If he is a returnee I think he'll have a chip on his shoulder especially against Patty but also against Sidon who he seemed to truly believe was with him Chio - I really haven't seen an active Chio ghost in a long time I don't think he's in the running to return Karson - Would likely be a complete free agent unless he's got a really overdeveloped sense of revenge and wants to rain hellfire on all of Wisdom Magda - This would be a great returnee for us, naturally close to Revali while Royal and I had no hand in her demise Oaki - Agent of chaos, probably guns for Kohga and Sidon, but I would eventually be in the crosshairs too because I did share some of the things he said to me about who he would be willing to vote out. Might be a repairable relationship though with both of you whispering the right words in his ear. Riju - Based on everything I know, Riju is strong and dangerous and on the wrong side of things. We'd need to aggressively target her to get her out again or she could rally troops against Royal. Robbie - Would be anti-Revali, probably pro-Royal but would Sidon command his loyalty moreso? This would be a messy returnee too. Roscoe - I don't really want to see a Patty ally return to the game, but at least he'd probably gun for Kohga even before coming for Revali Teebo - This would be messy too, anti all of us, would have to target quickly as with Riju above
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Revali
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Post by Revali on May 9, 2020 11:18:53 GMT -5
No long post yet, just finished my exam (seriously on Saturday ugh) so gonna try and coalesce my thoughts before my brain turns to jelly. Also my neck feels better but my arm is sore from all that writing.
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Revali
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Post by Revali on May 9, 2020 11:48:29 GMT -5
Okay so first on Horses stuff.
I know this sounds stupid but I want us to have our story straight, how do we convince people I'm not with you, or rather how should I talk about y'all, we can likely just have you say I was inactive due to exams/etc... but I'm not a great liar and don't want to give us away at the drop of a hat. Also I'll likely need a way to explain why I'm confident in your votes if it comes down to me having to explain stuff.
I agree with Epona on two counts. 1. We're gonna have to be flexible about our final 6, like plan A doesn't work and as big a fan as I am of a long term step by step plan in a game like this it doesn't matter how many plans we have, mods be tripping.
I also agree Urbo is kind of a natural ally. We got along really well on my last tribe, probably the only person I trust from that tribe and if we want to focus Mipha (which we should oh god we should) I think we can solidly work with them until 6 without any of us feeling tempted to try and go to the end with the most beloved of Team Wisdom.
I'd also reccomend we not have more than 1 other power player in final 6, near the end we need one of us to win immunity to block out whoever is not in our final 3 and well, if anyone is gonna threaten that it's a power player. Though I'm honestly not that scared of Khoga, but Kass AND Patricia being there would be problematic.Though, I have no issue playing the bad guy with not going to the end with Power, I mean like...they wouldn't believe I wanted a Power F3 for a second.
Big Drama seems to be whatever I need to hash out with Power, I can keep it on the back burner until we have numbers, but it'll definitely be a good smoke screen for y'all to set something up. Mipha and Urbo is some prime stuff but likely will need to be resolved quickly. Honestly seeing if we can have Link around a bit to cause a bit of Chaos or something might be beneficial though. Also using the "OMG 5 WISDOM AROUND" smokescreen for an early boot is also not a bad idea.
So yeah on threat, Mipha is fucking scary. Like they effortless made me love them off the bat on a level above everyone I met before, but also won the advantage from round 1 and has been destroying challenges left and right. Like they have challenge prowess, social skills and were sorted into Wisdom. We can not let them even get close to the end cause they could just win out and that is not a good thing. They also definitely have that alliance thing going Epo mentioned as they knew what Stamina's words were and Patty;s words in particular, so like they have connections, had an idol (which thank god they wasted back on the middle tribe (and also thank robbie for telling urbo they were voting them out post merge cause otherwise I would've voted into an idol).
I think I answered question 5 with that. We could also go something like Link but Mipha going first round of merge would be interesting, though we may have to settle for someone else like Patty, if we can get numbers at all. That may be preferable to extend the Urbo Mipha feud past 1 round.
Gonna do individual people thoughts.
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Revali
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Post by Revali on May 9, 2020 12:04:34 GMT -5
Kass - If you can convince Kass to not immediately go for me, I can work with them. They're a sweet talker controlled our first tribe and pretty good at challenges, so definitely don't want them near the end, but like probably a good short term ally.
Khoga - Khoga might overplay at some point, he just gives me those vibes, but honestly I think he is a natural ally as yeah he voted with me and didn't hurt Epona. He's fun to talk to but not super threatening.
PATRICIA - Oh yeah, I can murder them, or let them live. I don't really care all too much about Patricia but them winning immunity could fuck up some stuff.
Link - Was notified of the last minute switch to robbie before they could change their vote, will probably tell Mipha they were the vote according to me and Urbo and maybe Mipha will figure out that they were the vote for a while. Not sure we can exactly kill them before that gets spilled though. Otherwise seems to be in it for themselves and I trust them to try and play for them but not much more. He'll probably go easy though.
Sidon - Haven't met Sidon but I'll believe you on him being a threat. I did like talking to him in the crossover tribal but I probably am not going to be on his list of people he wants to work with. Agree with when to kill them. Maybe get them at 7 or 6?
Hunnie - Also haven't met Hunnie. I'll try and cozy up to them since they do seem like someone we can work with easily but need to cut first.
Mipha - See above, kill this person before they wreck all of our days.
Pelison - I'm fine with ditching Peli whenever y'all want to. They definitely are giving me more survivalist vibes and honestly hasn't been impressive. I also don't actually know where his loyalty is, so yeah.
Urbo - natural ally I agree on this, we gucci fam.
Returnees Ancient Oven - Honestly kind of ideal for us, none of us have bad relations with them and they'd be solidly pointed at well, not us. Also potentially could get revolving doored? Chio - know 0 about them Karson - same as Chio I'll take Epona's word for it. Magda - Agreed they're a great returnee but if they come back then we have to kill one of them or Khoga mid merge. Like, even though I wasn't super tied to it, people saw Me/Magda/Khoga as a trio back on old Power, I want that to be proven wrong a lot. Oaki - OH PLEASE COME BACK YOU MADDENING FORCE OF CHAOS. Perfect smokescreen who likely has beef with people other than Epona before Epona so we can let them loose before well "oh fuck what is Oaki doing this time" Riju - Please no based on everything I've heard. Robbie - Yeah, no he will be confused and mad at me. Sure I can try and explain why he was voted out but I would not be happy about everything. Roscoe - Eh, I'd be interested in what he has to say about old Power, not the worst returnee but also not the best. Teebo - Yeah agreed, murder them fast.
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Epona
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Post by Epona on May 9, 2020 12:37:33 GMT -5
I've got some thoughts on our messaging, so to speak! Give me a little bit I'm doing laundry and dishes quarantine has been horrible for my ability to keep a tidy home.
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Epona
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Post by Epona on May 9, 2020 13:52:09 GMT -5
OK so part one of this issue, it's important that Royal and I aren't sounding like we workshopped this beforehand so we need to have slightly different things to say. That should be too hard since Royal met you previously and has more history to talk about and I just met you. My lines about you will be variations of this kind of thing: He was nice but he never really opened up to me Great team player on the challenge It was tough being on a tribe of three when Revali wasn't PMing much and Horse was on a pretty different sleep/wake cycle I think he had exams going on the whole time so we didn't get to talk that much aside from working on the maze challenge
That should pretty well cover anything people ask me to where we're looking fairly neutral on each other (alongside you saying neutral or neutral-warm things about me as well as saying we didn't get as much of a chance to talk as you would have liked).
I think the way to handle this in the event you do need to express confidence about both our votes is to highlight a good relationship with Royal and say from there that it'll be easy to get both our votes because of that. Since we're assuming people see Royal and I as a pair already, there's some natural room to lean into that when it comes to talking vote plans with other people.
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Epona
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Post by Epona on May 9, 2020 14:02:23 GMT -5
In an ideal world the scenario would be 2 from each starting tribe at f6. That's tough to balance with the fact that of the remaining Courage players Link is gonna be a quick target and Sidon is scary, but maybe it can work. Sidon, Urbo and Kohga could work, or something along those lines, although then we're getting into scary immunity run territory. I agree that the big challenge beast Powers should NOT be there close to the end, so Kohga is someone we should really focus on further relationship-building with ASAP.
Yeah I pretty much agree on all of this, and the fact that Mipha is a priority to target when we get the chance. She's good in challenges so other people will likely want to jump on board just because of that as soon as she isn't individually immune.
In keeping with the flexibility theme here, I think we have some very good starting options once we hit merge: Target Mipha actively Join a train against Mipha led by Urbo Join a train against Patty led by anyone Join a train against Link led by anyone Target Link actively
We really just need to play that part by ear. The appearance of coordination becomes much harder to shake if we show up from a round of being sequestered together and immediately are on the same page about who has to die, so there's going to be some delicate dancing we'll need to do where we don't always say we want the same things to other people. Knowing what endgame we're moving towards is a lot more important than knowing what early merge moves will be required in any specific order.
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Revali
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Post by Revali on May 9, 2020 17:52:30 GMT -5
Okay, fell asleep cause wow was I up late last night (glad I posted this though this has turned out pretty well). I don't really have much to add at this point. The lines about me just being really confident about horse because of the challenge works with how people would probably read me, and I can definitely lean into the me having exams and not getting to have too much convo but y'all seeming like good people (well horses but ya know).
And Yeah that F6 is not exactly ideal but if we can manage to boot Sidon there that'd probably be good (I think early distrust of Link means that getting him near the end might make him seem a bit goaty and that's an issue) and then we'd just have the numbers going forward. Of course we don't need to be locked into that but it's definitely something good to move towards.
Agree with Epona about playing one of those by ear and hopefully it'll be more of one of the middle ones since anything that leads to us having to take immediate action might make us noticable and well, we don't want that, we need people to not notice until 5 but roping in common allies that people would expect to be stronger allies for each of us should go well.
Anyway, thank you all for talking this out and see you on the other side, I am so hype for this merge, we're gonna crush it.
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Epona
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Post by Epona on May 9, 2020 18:19:19 GMT -5
OK squad, I just got the all clear from the guides to try something out here that may turn out to be a useful tool and may turn out to be a waste of time but it's a creative use of the board functions and I want to try it. Creating a new thread, check it out momentarily!
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