Saas Ko'sah
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Post by Saas Ko'sah on Jun 8, 2020 19:18:11 GMT -5
Not every game needs a good winner though? i think the true ending we needed was kohga winning but we are all r.obbed on this sad day Yeah Khoga would have been a fabulous winner, but oh well. I agree that not every game needs a good winner. In fact, usually the best games have mediocre to bad winners, and the games with the very best winners are often boring. I don't even think Urbosa would be a truly great winner tbh. Her game has some significant flaws, and I think FTC is revealing them. But she'd make a better winner than Mipha
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Saas Ko'sah
Sheikah Spectators
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Post by Saas Ko'sah on Jun 8, 2020 19:23:26 GMT -5
I think Mipha, if she wins, might be the worst MS winner in recent memory? Though I didn't watch Legendary so I have no idea about Tapu Lele, maybe he was worse.
Not trying to trash her. I have enjoyed her personality and her confessional, and I don't think she's an undeserving winner because she clearly did what she had to do to get people to like her which is something. But in terms of agency and strategic thinking or even just intentional planning of a beneficial endgame, she's significantly lacking. I don't think she played with the intentionality that Urbosa and even Revali did.
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Saas Ko'sah
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Post by Saas Ko'sah on Jun 8, 2020 19:26:49 GMT -5
Although Mipha, if you're reading this after the game and you won, please don't take anything personally because a win is a win is a win, and girl, if you get it, you earned it.
And if you didn't win, I don't think you're the worst runner up, far from it lmao
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Roscoe
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Post by Roscoe on Jun 8, 2020 19:38:23 GMT -5
Mipha's game stands out next to Urbosa's and Revali's because it's relatively honest (in the 'not flashy' sense of the word). Urbosa and Revali are propping up their games with things that the jury doesn't agree are theirs to claim. In contrast, Mipha's game looks weaker, but it's really clear to the jury exactly what game Mipha played, and there's something about that that earns respect.
But yeah, that only really works because Urbosa and Revali have glaring flaws. I don't think she had much in the way of other paths to victory as a returning player.
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King Hyrule
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Post by King Hyrule on Jun 8, 2020 19:55:30 GMT -5
imo Urbosa should be the clear winner, like even when she was immune she still did shit, she managed to find cracks and get players to do the shit she wanted even from the bottom. Her F6 to F4 was perfect play.
People talk about getting players to pass items across, the most important item that get passed was the Idol Nullifier, that item was the ONLY thing that could've killed Urbosa. Oven let Urbosa look at it and it was sent back but then...Oven gave it to Urbosa to keep!
Also it's all well and good having items but if you haven't got the social to read the room and know whether or not to play an item correctly then it's useless. Mipha misplayed so much which shows that she was never tight enough with her allies to fully trust them to keep her safe.
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Roscoe
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Post by Roscoe on Jun 8, 2020 20:00:20 GMT -5
But does the jury want Urbosa to win? At the end of the day, that's the big question.
If we're choosing the player that played the most flashy, clever game, I agree that it's Urbosa 10/10 times. But the jury is the end-all-be-all. So far it's looking like Mipha took the most impactful twist - Redemption - and played it spectacularly in a game-winning fashion.
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Zelda
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Post by Zelda on Jun 8, 2020 20:13:23 GMT -5
I mean I can kind of relate tbh. Something similar happened to me in a game I played recently. A jury can vote by whatever standards they want and decide the winner. There are no bad or good winners, just winners. I think any of Mipha, Urbosa or Revali would be a fine winner as they all exude qualities that are uniquely different and interesting and the stories they told to get to where they were are different.
That's why I think this is a great final 3 no matter the outcome.
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Saas Ko'sah
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Post by Saas Ko'sah on Jun 8, 2020 20:29:07 GMT -5
Mipha's game stands out next to Urbosa's and Revali's because it's relatively honest (in the 'not flashy' sense of the word). Urbosa and Revali are propping up their games with things that the jury doesn't agree are theirs to claim. In contrast, Mipha's game looks weaker, but it's really clear to the jury exactly what game Mipha played, and there's something about that that earns respect. But yeah, that only really works because Urbosa and Revali have glaring flaws. I don't think she had much in the way of other paths to victory as a returning player. I think we have different perceptions of what happened, because from my pov, Urbosa described the game mostly as I already saw it in her speech and Mipha was the one taking credit for things she didn't actually do. But agree to disagree I guess.
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Saas Ko'sah
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Post by Saas Ko'sah on Jun 8, 2020 20:32:31 GMT -5
I mean I can kind of relate tbh. Something similar happened to me in a game I played recently. A jury can vote by whatever standards they want and decide the winner. There are no bad or good winners, just winners. I think any of Mipha, Urbosa or Revali would be a fine winner as they all exude qualities that are uniquely different and interesting and the stories they told to get to where they were are different. That's why I think this is a great final 3 no matter the outcome. There definitely are good and bad winners. Some winners have more agency and intentionally make choices that get them to the end in a winning spot, and others don't. Some winners are better than others, but all winners are deserving in one way or another. I don't think this is a great final three. It's an okay final three. It's fun in the sense that we don't 100% know what's going to happen, but that's also a product of all of their games being deeply flawed.
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Saas Ko'sah
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Post by Saas Ko'sah on Jun 8, 2020 20:39:07 GMT -5
But does the jury want Urbosa to win? At the end of the day, that's the big question. If we're choosing the player that played the most flashy, clever game, I agree that it's Urbosa 10/10 times. But the jury is the end-all-be-all. So far it's looking like Mipha took the most impactful twist - Redemption - and played it spectacularly in a game-winning fashion. Yeah of course it comes down to the Jury. But before the Jury has officially voted, I do think we can (and should) weigh their games ourselves. I also don't necessarily think winning a Jury vote means you played a better game, though maybe it usually does. Winning the Jury vote makes you deserving, but that doesn't mean you can't lose it and also be deserving, if that makes sense. It's also worth noting that Urbosa and Revali had no access to Redemption, and even if she wins, Mipha's win will be partly influenced by her having gotten voted out and having had time to talk to the jurors in a non-game setting. Like that's such an advantage it's ridiculous, and she got it by being voted out. This isn't like a normal game where all players had relatively equal access to the Jury.
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Saas Ko'sah
Sheikah Spectators
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Post by Saas Ko'sah on Jun 8, 2020 20:45:01 GMT -5
I also feel like people are really focusing too much on Urbosa's items, like most of them were very situational and not as useful as people are making them out to be.
Like Oaki's last post "figuring out if Urbosa used them optimally" is holding her having them against her, even if Oaki denies that. It's holding her to a different standard because she has items which maybe is fair, but it is definitely holds them against her.
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Zelda
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Post by Zelda on Jun 8, 2020 20:46:17 GMT -5
I agree with that.
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Karson
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Post by Karson on Jun 8, 2020 21:08:02 GMT -5
Also I know it’s already been said but the amount of actual attacking towards Urbosa and Revali is obnoxious compared to the pale amount towards Mipha.
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Karson
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Post by Karson on Jun 8, 2020 22:10:41 GMT -5
And another thing. I think it’s also bullshit that they’re taking out their frustrations towards game design on the players also.
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Fyson
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Post by Fyson on Jun 8, 2020 22:11:02 GMT -5
It's also worth noting that Urbosa and Revali had no access to Redemption, and even if she wins, Mipha's win will be partly influenced by her having gotten voted out and having had time to talk to the jurors in a non-game setting. Like that's such an advantage it's ridiculous, and she got it by being voted out. This isn't like a normal game where all players had relatively equal access to the Jury. By that same token, though, the others had the opportunity to vote her out before her closer connection with the jury had a chance to hurt them at FTC.
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