Korgu Chideh
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if you see me online can you PLEASE tell me to go study
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Post by Korgu Chideh on May 30, 2020 10:07:44 GMT -5
okay that was mean-spirited. feel free to yell at me i deserve it
but this is what i've been saying about the obligations we owe to each other as a cohort (and i did mention the obligations we owe to players contemporaneously)! and i know i'm terrible at it but i really did and do think i have a point
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Korgu Chideh
Sheikah Spectators
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if you see me online can you PLEASE tell me to go study
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Post by Korgu Chideh on May 30, 2020 10:11:09 GMT -5
if it helps, replace the word obligation with norm or custom, i think maybe that gets across the we-should-all-be-doing-this-but-it's-not-an-actual-proposed-enforceable-rule nature of it
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Impa
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Post by Impa on May 30, 2020 10:17:37 GMT -5
Yeah no, I wasn't saying y'all are obligated to do anything really. Just more like... I don't think Epona was asking for more questions or anything, just communication. Which I think is different than questionnaires. You do absolutely have a point, not saying you don't. Just was explaining what it was that I meant. You're fine <3
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Korgu Chideh
Sheikah Spectators
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if you see me online can you PLEASE tell me to go study
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Post by Korgu Chideh on May 30, 2020 10:19:39 GMT -5
no let's fight more i'm hopped up on six cans of cola and a vague sense of entitlement
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King Hyrule
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Round 15
May 30, 2020 10:47:24 GMT -5
via mobile
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Post by King Hyrule on May 30, 2020 10:47:24 GMT -5
The players don't seem to be having fun with all the twists. This is something that mods should keep in mind moving forward. I disagree with this, the players are annoyed with Urbosa getting immunity win after immunity win. The game has been designed that the first half of the game was very twist heavy and the last half was twist light. There hasn't been a single twist since the re-emerge. Just simply navigating a load of items, but even then the items themselves aren't super bastard. Like nearly all items have been featured on the TV series (or a similar version), the bastard is the number of items. Comparing this game to what I've heard about previous bastard games and this game sounds a lot more tame. Also at the end of the day, whilst yes this is a very complex game, it is 100% fair, every player has the same equal opportunity as every other player. Yes Urbosa got a ton of items, she played the auction with a strategy, she bet 25 on most items Patricia did a similar strategy of betting 100 on all the secret items This game has been really well designed and I will defend anything and everything about it.
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Saas Ko'sah
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Round 15
May 30, 2020 12:20:30 GMT -5
via mobile
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Post by Saas Ko'sah on May 30, 2020 12:20:30 GMT -5
Honestly Urbosa's Immunity run could have happened in any game. You're right, that's really what they're mad about, and they're taking it out on the items/format. I kind of do get being annoyed that the timer got reset instead of this happening like an hour into tribal, but like, that isn't Urbosa's fault and there are reasons the mods chose to make it work that way. Previously in the game, they tried to get Oaki to use Cryonis and extend the timer.
Sidon and Kohga are being especially insufferable now, like what was Urbosa supposed to do, not play items that she had because they would reset the timer and annoy other players? That's a ridiculous standard.
I really respect Mipha a lot more because of this round and I respect Revali too. Revali is down about Epona being ice arrowed and feels like he can't win, but he's been very respectful and is trying to plan a path forward. Mipha has been positive too and is trying to adapt. Kohga and Sidon just have horrible attitudes and I get it, the game gets to you, and you put so much time into something only to lose because of factors that don't feel like they're in your control. I 100% get it. But it isn't a cute look for them at all.
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Zelda
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Post by Zelda on May 30, 2020 12:52:19 GMT -5
well that's not true, we did have "2 people get immunity at final 8". But aside from that yeah we had virtually no more items/twists planned after the re-merge. So everything that has played out has been a result of indecision, an insane immunity run, holding onto things that were never questioned or challenged, and rules of items that were pre-determined and could be in anyone's hands.
I pretty much agree with the rest of what King Hyrule is saying.
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Daag Chokah
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I love King Hyrule! King Hyrule is the best! I am sorry King Hyrule!
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Post by Daag Chokah on May 30, 2020 12:56:03 GMT -5
For all those reading now or after the game: I understand. I understand your frustrations that I've gone on a winning streak. I understand you are frustrated I have items at my disposal. I understand. What I am not going to apologize for, though, is having to adapt my game to meet twists and turns in my own way. I am FULLY aware my social game has suffered because no one is interested in working together — my closest allies in the game post-merge, Revali and Oven, both felt estranged because of my wins. Does that mean I should throw, putting myself at risk so other people can win safety and vote me out in the process? Immunity with Mipha gave me leverage to force a tie and eliminate Kass. Immunity here allowed me to shake things up in a way that has aggravated people because they wanted Epona gone so they could seize absolute control. I refuse to apologize for giving it my all on the challenge front, especially after it became evident I'd reached the point of no return: Win and survive, or lose and get voted by an overwhelming majority. Upset I have items? I implemented a strategy that round to maximize my chances of getting items, and it WORKED. No one seemed to complain when they were being given items from other people because of their social prowess. Why should I have to diminish my own accomplishments on the strategic front? You are angry because the past few rounds have disrupted your pristine resumes and casual stroll to the end. YOU misplayed your items, not me. You could have had security here, but I worked around those pitfalls to open up the game. I bucked against the dominant power dynamic again and again, so I knew to expect derision. But this is just ridiculous. Post this in your opening speech and become the most glorious finalist to get zero votes of all time.
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Saas Ko'sah
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Post by Saas Ko'sah on May 30, 2020 12:58:48 GMT -5
I don't think she'll get zero votes lol. I think the large Jury works to her advantage especially. But her path to win seems narrow. She obviously van be persuasive though.
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Roscoe
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Post by Roscoe on May 30, 2020 13:25:02 GMT -5
The players don't seem to be having fun with all the twists. This is something that mods should keep in mind moving forward. I disagree with this, the players are annoyed with Urbosa getting immunity win after immunity win. The game has been designed that the first half of the game was very twist heavy and the last half was twist light. There hasn't been a single twist since the re-emerge. Just simply navigating a load of items, but even then the items themselves aren't super bastard. Like nearly all items have been featured on the TV series (or a similar version), the bastard is the number of items. Comparing this game to what I've heard about previous bastard games and this game sounds a lot more tame. Also at the end of the day, whilst yes this is a very complex game, it is 100% fair, every player has the same equal opportunity as every other player. Yes Urbosa got a ton of items, she played the auction with a strategy, she bet 25 on most items Patricia did a similar strategy of betting 100 on all the secret items This game has been really well designed and I will defend anything and everything about it. I don't think 'last half' is accurate - the re-merge happened at Final Nine with three returning players before that point. It is also uncommon for any twists to occur in the late-game. Furthermore, the items that were won in the early-game are directly impacting the late-game just as much as (if not more than) the early-game. I re-assert that the show is not a gold standard of good twists. I am not contesting the fact that this game has been designed fairly or even mechanically well. It's clear that a lot of work went into this and you accomplished many of the things you intended to accomplish going in, and I respect that. But several players resent certain aspects of this game on the grounds of them not being fun. That's criticism worth considering as a moderator if you want your games to be fun.
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Zelda
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Post by Zelda on May 30, 2020 13:32:36 GMT -5
Zelda Predicts the rest of the game (now that the 24 hour items are all finally out of the way):
This round:
Kohga-Immunity Idol, Immunity Challenge Blocker Epona-Half Idol Urbosa-Half Idol, Idol Nullifier, Strikeback Vote, Vote Blocker, auto FTC tiebreak, safety without power idol Sidon-Extra Vote Revali-Fake Item Mipha-Auto FTC vote
This round: Kohga, Mipha & Sidon come together to vote out Revali with Sidon. Revali, thinking his item will give him an extra vote will go for the tie. Urbosa considers playing her vote blocker on Sidon so she can finally have her way thinking it will be 4-3, Sidon goes, when it will actually be 3-2 Revali goes.
If Urbosa also decides to get sneaky, she could use the strikeback on Revali which would make it 3-3-1-1 with a revote, but idk if it would do much good. I doubt she uses anything else, and I doubt she actually uses the strikeback, so I predict Revali goes 3-2 here.
Next Round, Epona Returns:
Kohga-Immunity Idol, Immunity Challenge Blocker Epona-Half Idol Urbosa-Half Idol, Idol Nullifier, Strikeback Vote, auto FTC tiebreak, safety without power idol Mipha-Auto FTC vote
Urbosa has the Immunity Challenge Blocker used on her and thus only Kohga, Epona, Mipha & Sidon compete for immunity. Let's say for arguments' sake that Mipha wins it.
Urbosa knows it's time to use the safety without power and the strikeback vote whom she plays on...well Kohga I assume? She also really really really wants Sidon to go, so just in case Kohga gets cute and uses his idol on Sidon, it will get nullified or doesn't play this at all. The only other thing she has is the half idol which she gives to Epona whom she needs at f4 to go instead of her, accidentally giving him a full idol.
Mipha joins up with Sidon to vote out Kohga knowing that it's one of the two of them going since she can't unconvince herself that sticking with Sidon is a good idea.
Sidon and Mipha vote Kohga, Epona joins Kohga to vote Sidon. Kohga plays idol, thus negating the two votes on him. The strikeback vote gives Mipha and Sidon a vote each. Epona idols just to be safe but everyone already knew that was happening.
Sidon goes home 3-1-0
Final Four are Mipha, Urbosa, Epona & Kohga.
All unused items are now gone except for Zap Arrow & Treasure Chest
Urbosa wins immunity, because why not.
Mipha and Kohga successfully dictate that Epona has to go and Urbosa agrees, Epona goes 3-1. It's not impossible to conceive that thinking Epona will lose against Mipha in a challenge that Urbosa ties the vote as a last act against her ally who stabbed her a bunch and maybe Epona beats Mipha in a tiebreaker? But I doubt it.
Mipha, Kohga & Urbosa are finalists.
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Saas Ko'sah
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Post by Saas Ko'sah on May 30, 2020 13:36:30 GMT -5
I mean like for me Roscoe I know I hate playing complex games, and I hate playing bastard games even more, so I would never have signed up for this. The players chose to sign up knowing what they were getting into and if this isn't what they were expecting, idk, I think they have weird expectations because I was expecting wayyyyyyy worse than this.
I do get what you mean though. If players stop having fun, that is something to take into consideration in future games. But I'm not a mod and as long as the mods are clear about what they're offering, I don't think there's really a problem.
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Saas Ko'sah
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Post by Saas Ko'sah on May 30, 2020 13:43:31 GMT -5
Zelda Predicts the rest of the game (now that the 24 hour items are all finally out of the way): This round: Kohga-Immunity Idol, Immunity Challenge Blocker Epona-Half Idol Urbosa-Half Idol, Idol Nullifier, Strikeback Vote, Vote Blocker, auto FTC tiebreak, safety without power idol Sidon-Extra Vote Revali-Fake Item Mipha-Auto FTC vote This round: Kohga, Mipha & Sidon come together to vote out Revali with Sidon. Revali, thinking his item will give him an extra vote will go for the tie. Urbosa considers playing her vote blocker on Sidon so she can finally have her way thinking it will be 4-3, Sidon goes, when it will actually be 3-2 Revali goes. If Urbosa also decides to get sneaky, she could use the strikeback on Revali which would make it 3-3-1-1 with a revote, but idk if it would do much good. I doubt she uses anything else, and I doubt she actually uses the strikeback, so I predict Revali goes 3-2 here. Next Round, Epona Returns: Kohga-Immunity Idol, Immunity Challenge Blocker Epona-Half Idol Urbosa-Half Idol, Idol Nullifier, Strikeback Vote, auto FTC tiebreak, safety without power idol Mipha-Auto FTC vote Urbosa has the Immunity Challenge Blocker used on her and thus only Kohga, Epona, Mipha & Sidon compete for immunity. Let's say for arguments' sake that Mipha wins it. Urbosa knows it's time to use the safety without power and the strikeback vote whom she plays on...well Kohga I assume? She also really really really wants Sidon to go, so just in case Kohga gets cute and uses his idol on Sidon, it will get nullified or doesn't play this at all. The only other thing she has is the half idol which she gives to Epona whom she needs at f4 to go instead of her, accidentally giving him a full idol. Mipha joins up with Sidon to vote out Kohga knowing that it's one of the two of them going since she can't unconvince herself that sticking with Sidon is a good idea. Sidon and Mipha vote Kohga, Epona joins Kohga to vote Sidon. Kohga plays idol, thus negating the two votes on him. The strikeback vote gives Mipha and Sidon a vote each. Epona idols just to be safe but everyone already knew that was happening. Sidon goes home 3-1-0 Final Four are Mipha, Urbosa, Epona & Kohga. All unused items are now gone except for Zap Arrow & Treasure Chest Urbosa wins immunity, because why not. Mipha and Kohga successfully dictate that Epona has to go and Urbosa agrees, Epona goes 3-1. It's not impossible to conceive that thinking Epona will lose against Mipha in a challenge that Urbosa ties the vote as a last act against her ally who stabbed her a bunch and maybe Epona beats Mipha in a tiebreaker? But I doubt it. Mipha, Kohga & Urbosa are finalists. I think this round you're probably right, but it also could be Sidon. God Revali going is such a bad move, and I think Khoga knows that and might do it anyway out of emotion. Next round all guns will be aimed at Epona and Urbosa, so I think your analysis is somewhat off. It may well be Sidon going, but I think either Urbosa or Epona will get the majority of the votes. Maybe both idol and Urbosa plays her half-idol on Epona and Sidon gets idoled out, but also Urbosa can't vote so maybe Mipha gets idoled out? It really depends. And then F4 is almost certainly an Epona vote. I think Urbosa is actually a lock for FTC at this point as long as she doesn't let Epona go home in 5th place, and Khoga probably is too, unless Sidon goes rn, in which case Khoga could get 5th.
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Daag Chokah
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I love King Hyrule! King Hyrule is the best! I am sorry King Hyrule!
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Post by Daag Chokah on May 30, 2020 13:43:40 GMT -5
I didn't sign up lololol
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Zelda
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Post by Zelda on May 30, 2020 13:46:15 GMT -5
Well the thing is Kohga knows that Epona has the half idol and that Urbosa is likely to give him the other half.
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